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Hey hey there - entering a doubles tournament soon, been debating weaponry on my block of 32 Marauders.
32 strong, full command, Mark of Khorne. Will have a unit of 25 Skaven Slaves standing in front of it to absorb shooting, so will be deployed in a 3x10 block, with a Chaos Sorcerer at the front, kitted out for melee. [The reason for this is there is that one part of the tournie is a 1v1 single elimination challenge with one of your side's hero level characters. With a Chaos Lord on my team, and the Sorcerer, it's either my Sorcerer or the Warplock Engineer for the Skaven. And you start in base contact with the enemy. Yeah, hard choice.]
Anyways, I digress. I figure that because of the meat shield absorbing hits for me, the Marauder unit should come out pretty much intact. They get 3 attacks from my Sorcerer, plus 39 Str 5 attacks from the unit - so I've gone with flails, as not much should be able to stand against that, and Marauders have a decent Init stat. But, I've seen great weapons used a lot on this forum, so I'm wondering if my logic is faulty. Any help would be lovely.
1) your 2 wounds away from compromising your CC capabilities. once you take that 3rd wound you start to lose attacks
2) with only 32 models in the unit, you will have a max of 2 ranks. You will not beat steadfast on your own, and when they hold you are screwed without your +2 str
3) If I saw this comming at me, I wouldn't shoot the slaves, i know how worthless they are. all it's going to take is 1 template drop (from any warmachine, won't be screened by slaves) to make your unit hurt.
4) you are counting on full attacks when such will rarely be the case. Hordes on the 25mm base aren't common, our own army and orcs being the only 2 that I can think of at the moment. Odds are you will rarely get the 10 frontage you need, and your attacks will suffer for it. Sure you can still dish out the pain, but it will be less damage and thus the static combat res will play a much bigger factor.
32 is not enough for a horde, so either buff up your model count or don't horde it. You will need those ranks to cancel steadfast and also for subsequent rounds of combat. I personally prefer Great Weapons over flails because I never want to lose my +2str bonus. I also don't care that i ASL because I go 50+ strong and i know i will have plenty of bodies to strike back with.
I gotta say tho, i don't like marauder units playing a pivitol role in my army. they are a great unit but lack toughness and armour and will rarely see the end of the game in tact. 50 maraders with GW and khorne is just around 300pts, but is capible of killing so much more than what it costs i just throw them out front and force my opponent to deal with them, leaving my more elite troops a little further back to choose their targets when the dust settles.
there are other play styles for marauders out there, bodyguard builds or tarpit builds, but i think if you want a pain train you really need to dump some more points into it.
I think the lord would make a better leader for this unit. If you keep the flails and combat goes to round 2, then at least you have him up there still causeing str5 hits. Also if you kit him with the crown of command he makes the unit stubborn, which elimiates alot of problems from the lack of SCR. I have a buddy who loves the Mot+ToP+CoC in a unit of maraders. Most often the unit just walks from one side of the board to the other, killing weaker stuff and grinding out tougher stuff. the one game his unit got chewed up over 4 turns with a unit of my warriors, but i couldn't touch the lord and the combat went on until he broke me on turn 5.
sorry if it seems that I'm just trashing your build, I would offer more suggestions to help if I knew the criteria you were working with (pt value, compisition, rules for partners ect). Give up some more information and we can think up something.
the issue simply comes down to how many rounds of combat.
with this edition encouraging massive infantry blocks the chances of a combat only lasting one turn is minimal. after the initial turn of awsome the flails then go back to basic strength, ie a mindblowing 3 and your stuck with crappy maruaders. the gws may take away their good looking inititive but it allows them to kill turn after turn.
im not as taken with hordes as some. all it takes is for your opponent to run 6 wide (for more ranks and longer lasting steadfast and youve wasted alot of those extra attacks.
stick with GWs and id say 6-8 wide max and let your opponent go horde and suffer the disadvantages, imo.
Last edited by randomspecific; October 10th, 2011 at 04:14.
I generally find Flails > GW in units less than 40+
Chances are, you don't have the numbers to last multiple rounds of combat with 32. If you bring GW, you will strike last, so depending on what you are fighting, you will likely loose 10-15 marauders before you get to strike if you bring GW, greatly deminishing the amount of attacks you get.
If you bring flails, chances are, you will strike before your opponent, greatly decreasing HIS number of models able to strike back at you.
Even if he is steadfast, chances are you will win that first round of combat, not loosing frenzy (because you got to strike with all your models before they got slaughtered)
Quote Lord Borak
Now now lads. This is a forum about grown men playing with toy soldiers. Lets be adults please.
No worries Talisman, I'm looking for honest critique, not sugar and rainbows. Mmm...Chaos rainbows...
Rules are 1,000 points per, normal rules for allies - will be playing with Skaven. I hadn't thought of templates, which would be a very good reason to bring GW's and to rank up...but regular shooting should be pretty minimal on them, as they'll have a unit of Slaves in front of them, absorbing fire. My army is:
Chaos Lord, Mark of Khorne, Enchanted Shield, Biting Blade
Chaos Sorcerer, level 2, Mark of Tzeentch, Warrior Familiar, Charmed Shield, The Book of Secrets
32 Marauders of Chaos, Mark of Khorne, great weapons, full command
12 Chaos Warriors, Mark of Khorne, shields, halberds, full command, Banner of Swiftness
5 Marauder Horsemen, shields
Total: 999 pts.
Would never run that army by itself, but with the meat shielding [140 infantry models was the last count] the Skaven will be bringing, I'm thinking enough will get to their side of the board.
Last edited by Penniwhistle; October 11th, 2011 at 02:51.
For Flails, I run my MoK marauders in blocks of 18.
For Great Weapons, 50 is the preferred size.
“If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley
drop the horsemen for more marauders and take a unit of 5 dogs so you have a legal 3 units?
@ 1000pts, our troops are far more potent than our characters. with suck lower caps for special and rare choices, there isn't much out there that can go toe to toe with warriors or large units of marauders. I would drop your lord entirely and spend the points on troops. What is his role? he is just adding more str 5 attacks to a unit with str5 attacks coming out of their ears, the cost of him alone will get you another 45 mauraders, or enough to beef up both warriors and mauraders to a decent size (12 just doesn't cut it).
I'm not familiar with the book of shadows, i think you mean book of secrets? If so, you will want to read the FAQ update on this item, as your build does not make sense for this item. I would avoid this item all together. insted try a exhalted with this item taking lore of shadow: he counts as a wizard and the signature spell can be cast into combat as with most of other ones. Combined with the hero stats he will be one tough cookie in a single challenge
You can also save points by cutting out ALL unit champions. these are worthless.
Kull speaks true, horsemen are just expensive dogs for all the good they do.
I might even consider dropping marauders for 2 units of warriros. If the skaven is brining a ton of cheap, expendable troops with high rank bonues or horde formation, what benifit is there to more of the same? I'm thinking the sheer size of your combined forced may be an issue aswell, but it is hard to visualize.
Drop the chaos lord, and Beef up the marauders
Run a Chaos Sorcer, level 1, Mark of Slaanesh, DragonHelm - 100 Points
an Exalted Hero BSB, Mark of Tzeentch, WIth a shield - 150
Chaos Marauders (49), Mark of Khorne, Standard, Musician, Great weapons - 287
Chaos Warriors (17) , Mark of Tzeentch, Standard, Musician, Champion, Shields, Blasted standard - 362
Chaos Hounds (5) - 30
Chaos Hounds (5) - 30
Lore Of slaanesh is decent
Lash of Slaanesh is a generic magic missle that slows a fast army like Ogres or skaven
Hellshriek - I've seen it make or break a game when some one has hot dice
Hysterical Frenzy - Throw this on your warriors of chaos, D6 str 3 - so maxiumum 6 hits at strength 3 needing 5's to wound full save, and you get frenzy or hey throw it on that slave unit
Titilllating Delusions, ahhh the flank charges set up by this spell
Aura - again won me a game when all my blocks were in combat two fear checks failed and you wreck an army
Estastic Seirus should be dropped for lash
Pick your bunker for your units, the Chaos Sorc has a 3+ Armor and a 2+ ward vs flaming, the Exalted hero is a 3+ 5+ parry save in close combat and will more then likley striek first - and as you are teaing with another force of destruction for at least the first few rounds you will be able to use each others LD and Banners, so thats my Suggestion for you
Note this list only comes out to 959 points - More marauders? or more dogs
Last edited by ambientinspiration; October 10th, 2011 at 23:48.
Alright all, thank you for everything. Will be doing some updating...