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I noticed on the bits trays there are lances/spears but the army book doesn't show them to be able to take either so are they supposed to GWs?
Anywho back on topic..
I have a unit of 5 horsemen I was thinking to use as war machine hunters along with the units of warhounds. Not sure how to arm them to be effective enough to get across the board and have enough firepower to do any damage. Should they be given flails for the +1 str on the charge? Or should they just get the standard HW/Shield combo with MoT?
And I also read they have throwing axes in the "storyline" portion of that unit but the unit list doesn't show it. Are we to assume that they have the throwing axes and just use the BRB stats for throwing axes with the Marauders BS?
Looking in my army book i see that they can take spears and javelins. I would avoid the hand weapon/shield combo, as if you're using them for war machine hunting the ward save isn't going to make so much difference. I run mine with flails, light armor and throwing axes.
Hope I helped
Last edited by Commies Suck; October 16th, 2011 at 15:42.
Hm. I may have to look at another WoC book. I was pretty sure mine was the newer version when 8th edition BRB came out but I may be wrong 0.o'
That would explain a lot of my baffled thoughts when I'm reading some of these forum posts if I do happen to have 7th edition.
And thanks for the info with the weapon choices. Makes sense to not worry about shielding them if they are gonna be running at war machines anyways. Though my question..why Javelins and Throwing Axes? Can't you only choose to use one or the other if you're going to attack during the Shooting phase? Or does Javelins get the +strength on charges too?
Judging from your other posts here on LO, you have the correct book, so I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. The Marauder Horsemen box actually comes with all of the equipment options that you can give the models-
- Throwing Axes
(light armor - just paint their shoulderpads in metallics and use helmeted heads)
Unlike the regular Marauder Infantry, who lack an "official" Great-Weapon modeling option. I guess what I'm saying is- why would you think that they're sending your Great Weapons with our MCav box, when our MCav can't take great-weapons? It sounds like somewhere, you have a rules mixup. All of the options that we talk about here on LO should be present in your book - there was no change in our book between 7th and 8th edition.
Anyways, just to check if you have the right book:
Can you include Daemons as Troops, Specials, Rare? - this would be 'Hordes of Chaos', and is technically 2 editions too old.
Can you include HellCannons and Giants, but no Special Characters and only a few magic items? - this is the White-Dwarf "filler" list released after Daemons outdated Hordes, and is a common mistake for those who are trying to illegally download the WoC book as a PDF.
Can you include Scyla, Wulfrik, Festus, Throgg, Villitch, etc? - this is the correct book.
Also - you're usually better off with Hounds, Wulfrik, or a Disc for Warmachine hunting, although I don't even bother with it. We're usually in combat by turn 2 against everything but Gunlines, will which simply snipe our anti-machine options before we even reach them. Being in combat renders Warmachine shooting as utterly useless. Otherwise, Warmachines are tucked behind enemy lines, and we need to break through enemy units to reach them - which is why anything that doesn't Fly or Ambush is just about useless in this edition.
MCav do still have a place though, it's just finding the right niche for them. Check this out:
1. I hate Hounds, but they cost 1/3 the price of an MHorseman, and have the same toughness and just 1pt less armor. So if you want cheap, throwaway units, go for the Hounds. This means Warmachine Hunting, Screening, Redirecting, and Deployment Delay. This is why Armor or Shields are wasted on MCav - why worry about survivability when you could just get a ton of Dogs. Besides, +1Sv doesn't make them great, and giving them both LA&Shlds removes the FastCav rule that makes these guys worthwhile.
2. Javelins and Throwing Axes lack much damage output. 5/6 Javellins will usually only kill 1(one) T3 enemy model each turn. Not worth the points we're spending on the Javs unless you just killed an Elf Swordmaster. Throwing Axes are better, they'll kill a few more, but even if they go 1-for-1, they only kill 5/6 models, and most enemy units are either so large that they just don't care, or so heavily armored/toughened that they just bounce the hits. Don't kid yourself, your MCav aren't going to ride around and annoy anybody. Only two armies have effective shooting from their fast cavalry - Dark Elves, and Empire. Dark Elves because they have 2x Multiple Shots and a BS that kills, Empire because they have 2x Multiple Shots with S4 AP pistols. Anything with a S3 shot, or less than 10 S4 shots, is just a waste of effort.
3. Shock Cavalry - this is something that MCav can actually do. Whether or not it will "fit right" in your list is a matter of personal choice, but there are generally two ways of looking at MCav as shock-units.
3a - "The Cruise Missile"
This used to be the backbone of an entire armybuild in 7th edition, when we would load up on cheap (105pt) units of MCav with nothing but Flails and a foaming case of KhorneRage. Just having 5 of these nutters would be enough to rip apart the front rank of the enemy unit, leave them unable to strike back, and send them screaming for the hills. But then we ran into Steadfast here in 8th, and StepUp. We're lucky if 5 guys will even survive the return blows, let alone break an enemy who is testing on Unmodified leadership. But all is not lost: there is still a use for those old red-painted riders. Using their Fast Cav rule to effectively get a 1-2 turn charge, you can smash into lightly defended enemy characters and pelt 2-3 models worth of S5 attacks straight into their squishy little bodies. It's wasted against foes with cheap casters: Empire, Goblins, Skaven - but it's great at wasting Elves or tooled-up Wizard Lords. Because you just paid 105pts, so you want to get almost that many points back, or cripple their magic phase enough to save you those 105pts somewhere else.
3b - Flank Breakers
MCav are FastCav, and therefore they get across the field in a HURRY. One of the best ways to field them is to Vanguard them forward and then elect to go second so that you can charge on your 1st turn. Grab a unit of 10-12 MCav with Flails. You can choose to MoK them if you think you'll pass the crucial leadership to charge whoever you want them to, but Slaanesh has been pretty popular for me since it gives them ItP, ensuring that they won't run like hell when they get shot on the 1st enemy turn. Smack these guys right into the enemy's small flank unit. Usually these units are just light guards, or they're meant to assist in combat by rolling the flank of your army. MCav shouldn't have much trouble with a foe like this, especially since we're packing ranks this time. If you want an added boost, toss in an Exalted with a Steed of Slaanesh, so he counts as FastCav, and then give him a one-turner ability like Potion of Strength or Stream of Corruption to help him pile on the damage for your unit. Either way, engaging the foe like this means that they either lose part of their strategy (flanking you) or expose their flank (lost their guard) or they'll stupidly try to save the unit and redirect more of their army over to deal with your pesky MCav. Any of this is good, but what's even better is if you survive the fight and get a free ticket into the enemy backfield. Now you can start hitting targets of opportunity like Archers, Warmachines, lone wizards, or turn around and start getting those +2 Rear Charges into the enemy and hopefully have enough ranks to deny Steadfast.
4. There have been rumors and threats of people building huge 18-30 man blocks of MCav and running them as an All-Fast list. Personally I think this is folly, MCav are not Warriors, you're not going to be able to just swap all of the Warrior units in your list to MCav and expect to do well. You lack armor, lack staying power, lack unit options, and although you make up for it in speed, speed is now overpriced in 8th because the game focuses on large units going toe-to-toe. If you want to try this, go ahead, I personally have no experience with it, although I'm not sure if anyone has actually had the guts to by 50 MCav and build the list.
Hope this long post helps you out somewhat. Both of you.
Yeah my book doesn't include the other Chaos armies in it anywhere so I'm guessing it's the newer edition. Your list definitely helps with strategy/use of the MCav. The only reason I have them is because they came in the batallion set and figured if I bought em I may as well try em out one game to see if they are even worth getting more of. I don't plan on being in any games over a 2,000 point limit (unless my friends decide to try a grand army fight one day in the distant future).
I'll have to look in the book again about equipment for the MCav. It's possible I was looking at the wrong unit. I was on 40+ hours of no sleep when I looked so that might be all the cluster****edness of this post. lol