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I'm considering starting a second Warhammer army and I thought that I'd ask your opinions on the armies I'm considering.
I realise that the normal method of choosing a second army is to ask on the board of the various armies you're considering, but I realised that all I'm going to get if I post on another army's forum is a stream of "we iz da most bestest!" responses. I suspect that by asking the Warriors of Chaos board I'm likely to get more varied and interesting answers.
So, I want to run another army that plays differently to Warriors of Chaos, though the specifics of the army play-style aren't currently hugely important.
The two armies I'm considering so far are Wood Elves and Lizardmen. I love the imagery and fluff of both armies. I'm really attracted to the fire-and-move, hidden assassin, darken-the-sky-with-arrows, King of the Woods style of play that Wood Elves can bring and the idea of a dance with death; a graceful, balletic and deadly dervish with silent blades and secret assailants. I'm also really attracted to the nobility and destruction of ancient magic, the ranks of Aztec-inspired dinosaurs in beautifully-wrought armour, the wonderful grandeur of the monster-oriented army that Lizardmen can play and the idea of a stalwart defiance of the implacable march of external development; a grim and determined denial that the world outside has changed and is leaving the way of the Old Ones behind.
I'd like to know your thoughts on these two armies and, if you have a particular army that you think is perfectly balanced to provide a counter-point to playing Warriors of Chaos I'd be interested to know what it is and why.
I'm being at least partly swayed by the fact that Wood Elves are possibly the army I've wanted to play for the longest time. Also, a friend of mine currently plays Lizardmen and I don't know anyone who plays Wood Elves, so I'd be broadening the scope of play in my local meta. Additionally, I assume that there is likely to be a new Wood Elves Army Book coming out at some point reasonably soon and I hate to say it, but that draws me in, too. So, it seems that at the moment I'm tending to the Wood Elves over the Lizardmen.
Your thoughts and comments, please, on a postcard to the usual address.
I'd hold off on suggesting wood elves, they have a couple of viable lists, how ever they are really weak right now with this edition
Lizardman have the ability to be super scary, either way they go, combat heavy or magic heavy or shooting heavy its a great army, massive blocks of sauarus with spears will keep even the biggest hardest hitting units stuck with a steadfast LD effective 17 (Gota roll 3d6 yay cold blooded)
A friend of mine runs an all skink army and it dose, surprisingly well their ability comes from that cold-blooded special rule and a General BSB for 400 points you get all your eggs and an almost unkillable general if you do him right
Warriors of chaos: 2010 > pressent
Lizardman: 2009 > 2010 , 2011> Present
That said, the Lizardmen army sounds like a lot of fun. I really am torn between them. I'm half-tempted to put together 1,000 points of each and see what they're like to play with. I actually just got hold of the Wood Elves Army Book and I have to say, the more I read it, then more I want to put an army together with it.
Presumably a battle force for each army would give me close to 1,000 points of models with the addition of a Hero?
I like the look and feel of Lizardmen more, personally. They look powerful without coming off as brutish, and all their adornments should make for some fun painting challenges. And then they look like a heap of fun to play, between the Slann doing Slann things, the Saurus clomping forward, and the Skinks scurrying about delivering some poisoned shots. Plus, they're a good army - that should be some motivation as well.
I don't think that 1,000 points will give you much of a feel for either army. One of Wood Elves' biggest weaknesses (overpriced stuff) is masked at 1,000 points, where no one can bring that much of anything, and one of Lizardmen's main selling points (the Slann and his shenanigans) is unavailable.
Last edited by rothgar13; November 23rd, 2011 at 20:56.
Also, the more I look at the unit entries rather than just the fluff, the more I appreciate just how much of a challenge playing with them would be. Talk about handicapped! Gonna go examine me some Lizardmen... :/
Hopefully that will put some sense into you
*brushes blood and dirty from fists*
See, I play Wood elves. The apeal of them being an underdog army to play WAS an incentive in the 7th edition, but the 8th edition is darn near impossible to use them. Believe me, their fluff is awesome and the IDEA of their tactics is really good, but they are just far to handicapped to be a viable choice.
You could start collecting them and start to use them when the new book drops, but
A) we have no idea when the book will be out
The army needs a total overhaul in order to be viable. They relied 100% on denial of return attacks in 7th edition, without it their 0 armour army just dies when it touches something. Some of the forest spirit units are still, aparently, decent. Decent. That's your best is decent.
So if you start collecting, when the new book drops everything you had could become worthless. (like my 20ish glade riders. lets hear it for 25ish point light cav with no armour!!!)
C) The playstyle is very, very different from WoC, and really any other army out there. You have to learn how to play all over again, esp terrain setup/ army deployment.
Lizardmen would be an easier transition to make, as they still have things like ranks, static combat res, and a use for BSBs. Saurus and templguard and similar to Warriors (not as good but 2 attacks S4T4), and the monsters such as salys/stegas and terradons really add some diversity to our style. The problem is that they are a more comon army so it doesn't add to the mix, and people will know what to expect from you. Still, the Slann is hands down the best caster out there (not including special characters)
My Final Advise: Put your dreams on the back burner and wait for the new woodelf book to drop, if it ever does. Better to start it fresh when the new models get released and such.
But then, if it is the case that Wood Elves are likely to get an update, is it not likely to be worth picking them up early-doors, though, to get a feel for the army before the updates come out? If the two armies were evenly balanced, I'd definitely prefer the Wood Elves. The thing that's turning me off them at the moment is the seeming total lack of competitiveness they suffer from. Like I said earlier, I don't necessarily want to win all my games - but I'd prefer to go into most games with at least the opportunity of winning!
Yeah, Woodies have a rough time doing fun stuff in 8th.
Hmmm. Well, let's say I hypothetically just spent the last hour reading through the Lizardmen Army Book having just got my hands on one. And let's say, again hypothetically, that I actually really liked what I saw. Perhaps it would be worth me looking into Lizardmen for now and then, if the Wood Elves ever get a look-in later on, I could maybe start considering them then...?
What would you think about that? Hypothetically speaking....
I play lizardmen myself, and they're tons of fun, whether you want to field a powerful magic army with a slann and engine of the gods, or a brute monster army filled with stegadons, terradons, and salamanders, it's all good. I would say lizzies are one of the more balanced and competitive armies out there, and the transition from WoC would be smooth indeed. But what's interesting is that while they seem very similar, they are in there own way very unique, which kind of took me by surprise when I first played them. Hypothetically speaking if your going to play lizardmen go big or go home, start off with a relatively large army, maybe 1600 or 2000 points so you could at least know what it feels like to be unstoppable in the magic phase