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Well I just got my proverbials handed to me by Tomb Kings in a 1,000 point battle. A single War Sphinx killed a unit of dogs, 4 trolls, 35 marauders (including my general) and 14 warriors. Basically my entire army except Scylla.
Here's the list I was running.
Lvl 2 Tzeentch Sorcerer Hero (General)
35 Marauders, MoK, GW
14 Warriors, MoK, Halberds
Scylla (the only part of the army to perform well)
Prior to today's game I've considered that to be a competitive list at 1,000 points to take all comers. But today I found that I had nothing that could touch the Sphinx. And my opponent said that usually it dies in the first or second turns, which sort of rubs salt into the wound. I'll admit I didn't position my troops to best effect, allowing the Sphinx to overrun into my trolls when it blasted through the dogs, but still I did a total of 30 attacks on it at strength 5, and I didn't even manage to scratch it.
Toughness 8 is the problem, when I have nothing over strength 5. My trolls got off 9 attacks (before the breath weapon totalled them), did nothing. My Marauders got off 12 attacks (before the special attack and thunderstomp totalled them), did nothing. Then my warriors got rearcharged (not much I could do by this stage, had very little left), got off 9 attacks to no effect, then also got totalled.
Still, that's 30 rolls, I should've got 5 sixes by rights. Perhaps I was just unlucky. But then even if I had rolled averagely, it still would've burnt through the dogs, trolls and marauders before I downed it.
My original plan was to use the dogs to force it into a helpful position to allow the trolls to possibly get a flank charge. I thought the trolls would hold it up nicely at the very least, but no chance, not with that breath weapon removing their regen.
So basically, am I missing something in my list to deal with the occasional big nasty, or is it just my tactics that are lacking? Probably both. I used to include 5 knights, maybe I should bring them back in for the trolls and maybe a few marauders...
Also, I'm finding Tzeentch isn't really cutting it as a spell list. Treason isn't great when the entire enemy army is ITP, pandemonium was nice but got dispelled every turn (Tomb Kings have no shortage of power dice), and I never got the chance to get flickering fire off.
Anyway, long post, but I'd be grateful for suggestions.
You're using the wrong Lore to deal with that big guy. Shadows takes care of him, with your choice of Mindrazor, Pit of Shades, or The Withering.
Strength has nothing to do with killing a beast like that, you have to position for a good charge and You have to position for more attacks, in this case - AHW MoK is the winner combine it with okams and its dead at iniative 5
Warriors of chaos: 2010 > pressent
Lizardman: 2009 > 2010 , 2011> Present
but at 1k he can't take shadows unless he goes with a nearly nekid mage lord.
at 1K i think the HC is the best option.you will get 1 or 2 chances to shoot him for s10 d6w. then in combat he's T6 unbreakable, able to grind out combat with the guy till it don't matter.
Idealy a Slaneeshi Giant would pop the thing like a zit, as your opponent is accustomed too. If you can up the point value, take one and a mage lord with shadows.
You are correct, you do lack that big-nasty stopper. HC is the cheapest/most versitile, but the other rare choices have their roles aswell.
I'd take that plain ol' Sorc Lord. He's worth about as much as the Sphinx and can obliterate him in one turn.
If spending a Quarter of your army on one Character doesn't bother you then a Shadow Level 3 with a Spell Familiar can take out Bad boys like the Sphynx. Almost half the Lore (Razor, Pendulum and Pit) can do over Low init troopers. Shadows is pretty good in an all comers list as it's buffs and Hexes can screw anyone over. However if spending a quarter of your points on one model in an unreliable phase like magic doesn't sit well on you then..........
A shot or two from a Hell Cannon can do it over like no ones business. Str10 and D6 wounds can make even the T8 bad boy cringe. A giant (you can't afford a Slaanesh one in 1000pts) can do over Low init monsters really easily irrespective of Toughness.
I like your list and I'm not sure you should change it but if you regularly fight stupid things like that then swap out the Trolls and Scyla for Giant/Cannon or swap Scylla and the Level 2 for the Sorcerer Lord.
Thanks for the responses guys. I'm loathe to lose Scylla as he's pretty much been my MVP every time I've used him (only about 3 times so far though, and today his arm fell off which could be an omen...). Today also made me think about recalling my knights, might have to test them some more.
I generally haven't found that I've made my points back on my sorcerers so far, and that's with a lvl 2, usually Tzeentch, with spell familiar and charmed shield. That might owe more to my tactical ineptitude than anything else though.
I'll try shadow, and maybe a hellcannon in my next few games. I'll be playing Dark Elves again soon, which looks like a good opportunity to wheel out the HC.
Lore of Death, spell familiar and third eye on your sorc. All but one damage spells there ignore toughness, the signature is probably best against the sphinx though - especially if you get doom and darkness at it first, dead meat. Purple Sun will also devastate tomb kings. In a low pts game, it is a great alternative to shadow. Third Eye also let's you use their spells from the lore of nehekara - sweet lord!
Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks
Yep. Victor is right on the money - Lore of Death will smoke a Tomb Kings list, especially with the crumble rule.
“If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley
But will Lore of Death be as useful against Elves, or something else with high initiative? I haven't tried it yet, so I should give it a go and see for myself I guess. I've been underwhelmed with magic on the whole in the 6 or 7 games I've played since coming back to the hobby. Don't think my sorcerer has once made his points back. I'm leaning towards Shadow as something a little more broad, but it was useless in the one game I tried it (most probably was me, rather than the Lore at fault). I'm also leaning towards fire as something simple to use and with a more guaranteed impact. Mind you, then I'm back to square one when someone takes a big T8 fatty.
Will try Shadow and Death in my next few games, but I don't yet see a big advantage in taking a lvl 3 over a lvl 2 with spell familiar...