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hey all, got my first match against ogres comming up at 1200 and just wondering what kind of things to expect.
im thinking about trying an all pplate list with a "tooled" level 2 with the eye to try and steal some of thier buffs.
is this a good time to try an all plate list, due to the numbers advantage i should have over this foe?
should i go magic heavy and sneak in a minimilist level 3 and a level 1 with a puppet to try to get controll of the magic phase?
any general thoughts at all would be welcome.
Truthfully at 1200 points I don't think you'll have a lot to worry about. I found ogres more challenging the higher the points level, where as warriors of chaos do really well at the lower points levels. If I were you I would go with a lvl 2 tzeentch, with third eye, etc. Some gut's magic spells are really handy and cheap to cast, so with a +3 on your casting attempts, it's almost a for sure thing that you'll be able to cast whatever he has, and even if he takes a lore from the brb it's still good . All plate could work since he probably won't have the numbers anyways, unless he takes a ton of gnoblar in his list. I think trolls would work nicely, I've always found them useful against ogres.
Honestly, you'll usually want a lot more models in the regiments when you're fighting against Ogres. This time around, in a lower point game, you should be alright and should be able to make it by with an All-plate approach, but in the future, you'll learn to love those 50-man Marauder regiments.
As for the amount of magic you should grab? I'd go with a L3 and give him the Puppet, and then a Talisman of Preservation for the 4+ ward. Lore is up to you, although I prefer Shadows for my army and anyone who is just starting up - it's a very straightforward and useful lore.
Otherwise, everyone else here has summed it all up quite nicely.
oh dont get me wrong i love my maruaders, theyve been my best preformers in my previous games, but im worried about impact hits.
if the ogres get a decent charge off then im going to take collosal casulties before they strike and as they are completely unarmoured im not sure even their uber killing power can make up the total. where as warriors are a much tougher nut to crack while still being cheaper than your average ogre and allowing me to still keep numbers advantage but be better prepared for the incomming.
a sorc lord plus puppet plus tali of pres is 315 and over the 25% limit, i could take some more mundane basic protection but still 25% in one guy is a little...much but im pouring over lists so ill put it through and see what i come up with.
im hating 1200 too big for small stuff to cover all the bases, too small to get proper big game units in.
Here's the problem though - Ogres are slamming you with S4 impact hits, 1 per model on the front line, and +1S for every rank behind it, and the number of hits goes up to D3 if they roll a 10 or higher for their charge range. Even at 1.2k you should be expecting at least 2 full ranks of Ogre-y goodness.
For the price of a sizeable unit of Warriors (18 ) you're able to get a full horde of 40-50 Marauders. When those hits come raining down, the S5 is going to turn your Warrior's armor into paste - from a 4+ to a 6+ in a heartbeat.
The math in Warhammer is strange - the jump from a 5+ armor to a 4+ is vastly better than a 6+ to a 5+. And this is only half of what makes Warriors seem so hardy. You also have to factor in that we're WS5, so practically everything is hitting us on 4's, and a few opponents are stuck needing 5's. Negating half of the inbound attacks is a huge bonus. But Impacts ignore that entirely. They auto-hit, so does Stomp (something else Ogres are going to do). The other help to Warriors is their awesome Initiative, giving us time to soften up the small units before they can swing. And again, Impacts totally ignore this.
I'm not nay-saying Warriors, Impact hits could lose you the game, but they're not necessarily game breaking. I'm just pointing out that if you are worried about Impact Hits, you want to take Marauders, not Warriors.
The other problem that you're going to face is that our Warriors are usually faced with an overwhelming number of decent attacks back from Ogres. It's long been known that you throw your Marauders against the big scary damage-spam units, and you send Warriors in to deal with the chaff like S3 Goblins or Men and the likes. Ogres are terrifying prospects because they have 3A and 3W. Not bad, 3 goblins also have 3A and 3W right? Wrong. If you score 2 wounds on an Ogre, you're still getting hit with 3 attacks - and then a Stomp to boot. Ogres get Monstrous Support also, giving that second rank another full 3 attacks each. At the end of the day, 2 ranks of Ogres with a 120mm frontage (6 Bulls in 2 ranks) can output more S4 attacks than a unit of Warriors with a 125mm frontage (5 guys, 2 ranks), with 18 outbound attacks to 15.
Plate or Marauders, it won't make much of difference, but you're probably asking for the harder game with Plate. Ogres are a tough list, but they're nowhere near impossible, and we can win against them with a little effort. Where we've got them beaten is our unit costs, and our Initiative. Our armor also holds up better than theirs just on the virtue of starting off at a lower value. You're going to want to exploit this, so as tempting as it might be to load up on Sorcerers or Exalteds, you want to run a bare-minimum number of characters (L2 Shadows w/ 3rd Eye and ToP4+, and a BSB w/ MoT and ToP5+ ) and keep your units nice and cheap, instead of loading up on too many options.