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there must be a bloody way to use these guys.
with the other thread discussing ogres thoughts id steal its idea and talk about forsaken, another forgotten unit in our army book.
the issues are cost, number one. their damage out put is random and heavy armour doesnt really cut it.
they do have good movement. and i think this is the key to a possible use.
using a couple of units mixed in with the hounds as skirmisher hunters, or other annoyances.
so 2 units of 5 same cost as 4 trolls (and doesnt that just say something)
if youve got 2 good combat units, say warriors and marauder horde, with a skirmish line of 2 hounds for redirection etc and 2 units of forsaken to run after warmachines or other shooting units. this is a role that marauder horsemen also fill but with the horsement your paying about 21 points a model (6 horsemen,mok,flails,musician) and preying you kill enough on the first round. a forsaken is 18, slower but better in more than first round. now sure the use of those units has fallen dramatically these days but as the game moves towards more death stars backed up by support units could little combat units be more viable (if your area went into this kind of meta).
the forsaken is obviously not ideal but if you were forced to take them, how would you use them.
Seeing as I regularly use Forsaken We all know WHY they're not the best unit in our book but it's nice to talk about their strengths.
They actually have two main strengths.
1] Movement. M6 is pretty good and not much can pack the punch they can with the speed they poses. This makes them great at hunting down other flankers like Squig hoppers, Fast cav and all the other things you find on flanks. Their T4 and heavy armour also make the good for taking on archer units that would normally shred Dogs an Horsemen with their stand and shoot reaction.
2] Unit size.... Yup, not many people consider this a strength but they can be taken in units as low as 5 and this gives you a small unit with the punch of a warrior unit. Allowing them to do the above tasks without breaking the bank.
In regards to cost, how much do you spend on horsemen? A unit of 5 with MoK and Flails 105pts.......... 5 Forsaken is 90pts. I do agree though, they work best when mixed in with Horsemen and dogs (not that I do it.
I have yet to use them, but I have had some thoughts about how I could incorporate them into my army. For example against tomb kings, my hellcannon has trouble against those pesky sepulchral stalkers, seeing as it has such low initiative, it usually dies or get's stuck fighting them for longer than I would want. My thought was to take a unit of 5 forsaken to simply guard my cannon from such things, for only 90 points it saves me from dealing with a rather large issue IMO. That would be how I would use them, as borak has already pointed out, they do have some nice strengths, plagued sadly by some rather large weaknesses. But anything is viable, so I wouldn't have a hard time using them at all.
I would probably just take the bullet to my head.
Jokes aside, a unit of 6 running up the flank towards some soft targets could make most opponents break a sweat before they kill them off with arrows.
Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks
A group of 8 berserk & bloody Forsaken led by an Exalted on Juggernaut with Axe of Khorne/Favor of the Gods would be a pretty awesome unit theme-wise.
“If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley
Dammit, Viktor stole my joke. But yeah, the only 2 strengths they have are high move with a punch and small unit size. But ogres and knights have high move with a punch, so the only time I could see using them is if you were reallllllly strapped for points. But yeah, no. Bullet please.
Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times
Generally, units in our book are 'too good' at the task they were designed for and, unfortunately, they are priced at being that good which makes them too expensive. Exalteds and Lords never really get into a decent fight where they can make their points back and the same goes with Knights on Flanks. Knights are pretty much wasted hunting down crappy units like Archers, Dark Riders, Goblin Bolt Throwers etc.... and I think this is where Forsaken come in. Sure you can grab Horsemen to do the same task but while they are faster, to make them as killy as Forsaken, you have to take upgrades that make them MORE expensive than a Forsaken unit......
Compared to units the enemy can field Forsaken actually have a Bloody good Statline. How many other armies would like to even have access to WS4, Str4, T4, M6 troops with up to 4 attacks each? And be able to take them in units as low as 5?
Well there is one situation I found that they are good for. If you are playing a siege then they can carry ladders (unlike ogres and trolls) and being they move 6'' they can race up to the wall and get into combat then your other normal ever could.
thanks for replies all.
perhaps we need a more fear inspiring punishment than being shot in the head to encourage their use, shall have to think about that lol.
i threw together a list with a couple of units in it in a anti skirmisher, distraction role.
the list contained 3 combat units, 15 halberd mok warriors, 45 horded gw marauders and 6 trolls, screened by 2 hounds, 2 forsaken and 2 flail mok horsemen. sat on the flanks were 2 hell cannons and backed up by 1 level 4 and a level 2 and a bsb at 2500
with all 6 screening units you could provide soft cover to everything and hopefully put the pressure on pretty quickly and allow your main units to get across with much less damage and even if they do still take the majority of fire power the horsemen and forsaken are both capable of killing support units and providing other irritations.
although with all the massive blocks wandering around theres always going to be that game where they are completely ignored and useless....but theres only so much you can do lol.
no no now iv got it!
plus exalted with shrieking blade and favour + what ever else
plus 2 warshrines
and run them as a poor mans chosen with speed
Last edited by randomspecific; December 4th, 2011 at 06:10.
The thing is they cost the same as chosen (which can also be taken in units of 5), warriors and chosen can both have their max attacks as normal and have better armour. The only real bonus is speed, and horsemen are faster.
“The ultimate philosophical question, “Am I human or machine” is answered by many people, “I don’t care, as long as I am”
- Myron Krueger