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While getting a game in at my local, I bumped into a fellow WoC player who I've known for some time. I didn't have my beloved northmen with me (was playing an intro game with my Empire) but we swapped some list details. One thing that struck him was my smaller unit sizing - 15 for Tzeentch, 18 for MoK Halbs. I scoffed at him as he deployed his army of 24-man Warrior regiments to play a game against my mate's Lizardmen - an army that I have a notoriously difficult time defeating.
6 turns later and he'd tabled the Lizards.
Needless to say, my jaw was on the floor. I took at look at the army, and from what I could make out, it wasn't even the strongest list he could have built. I started wondering about his Large-unit theories. He had:
24 Warriors w/ MoT, Shields
24 Warriors w/ MoK, Halbs
Marauder Horde w/ GWs
11 Chaos Knights w/ MoK
L4 Sorcerer Lord w/ MoT
Hero (exalted or Sorc, couldn't tell)
24 Saurus w/ Shields
24 Saurus w/ Shields
20 Temple Guard w/ Halberds etc.
28 Skinks w/ 3 Kroxigors
2 Salamander Packs
Slann w/ discard 6's and extra dice per cast
Skink Chief BSB
and I have a feeling there was more to the LM list than just that.
This was crazy. I asked my friend if he just couldn't cope with the larger units, and he said that they were utterly brutal. Looking back, I'm not sure how any of my lists would cope with 24 Warriors, 4 ranks deep. It was brutal. There was so much that could be done, the Knights alone were running at least 440pts, I could drop them out and grab characters or better unit choices. The last time this gamer appeared for a tournament, I came in 2nd behind his first place finish.
Hmm.. that's very interesting Cap.
I know I usually always run my units of Warriors either 12 in 6x2 formation or 18 in 6x3. I've never even imagined going any larger than this.
Marauders? Sure. I bring a horde of 50 with GW and Festus in any game where special characters are allowed.. and that unit is nuts, so this is normal for me.
Knights? I've never run more than 10 at 5x2. What formation was he running these in?
Also, if you remember, what Magic Lore was his Sorc Lord using I wonder?
Thanks for the heads up Cap! That guy's tactics seem sound enough.. I may have to try it!
Fantasy: High Elves 7000pts / Warriors of Chaos 6000pts. 40k: Eldar 5000pts / Chaos Marines 2500pts.
Interestingly enough, I have been having a large amount of success using large unit's of knight's and tzeentch warriors, perhaps there is some method behind this madness.
I can see how it would be tough to deal with though. You get that extra rank for combat res, and warrior's are already hard enough to take down, that having to go through an extra rank after enduring such long combat's might turn out good for us in the end.
How many points are those lists Cap? 2500?
I'm planning on taking a list with 3 units of 24 Warriors.... (Or was it two and one unit of 24 Chosen......) Although I'm going to deploy them 8x3 and go all out attacks but the principle is the same. Most people can handle one Death Star. Not many can deal with three......... The only problem you'd have with such a list is the deployment game. Any list with 3-5 chaff units to deploy first will get to pick and choose his fights and that lets him counter your army as he finds fit... Adding some cheap Dog units would help out that problem no end.
For example my Marauder based list has 6 units of hounds at 2500pts. I can deploy them and your buddy will have set up his whole army without knowing where I'll be deploying. This gives me a leading edge until the Dice gods leave me and I end up forgetting the magic phase again.
Any chance that I could necro this thread as I was quite interested in this! oO How were the ranks placed? Or how would you play them in here?
Would it be wise to place a festus with one of those Warrior units? What about wulfrik with the Marauders?
Welcome to LO DVine! Since your a bit newer, I don't have much of an issue with you nercoing this, although we have lots of other threads discussing tactics and the likes, including the thread for newbies to ask questions.
Lately, I've been running a list like this myself, and a lot of other WoC players have bumped their ideal unit sizes to somwhere around 18-30. It's made a huge difference for me in terms of what I can expect each regiment to do. Generally the WoC rule-of-thumb is to go 6 wide, whatever you're doing, and build your units up from there. There are exceptions of course, but with 2A each, you want to have a decent sized frontage to get the most out of those extra attacks.
As for Festus and Wulfrik, they're both something of a toss-up. The one downfall to this list is that you have very few deployment drops, and you can't really afford to spend any points away from your units. Taking Wulfrik, for instance, is a handful of points taken away from your units, and also decreases your deployment by 1 drop, which means that until he shows up, your Warriors are taking the brunt of the firepower. Festus is good, some people like him, and those who don't tend to run "character light" anyways. For me, I eventually "outgrew" him, there's a pretty long argument about him in the 'Starting WoC' thread, I'll link you to it, but be warned - it's a few pages long. Basically, you spend ~200pts to make an AHW unit hit a little harder than our traditional Halberdiers, as long as Festus is alive and you can keep them supported with magic.
Festus Argument (Starting WoC? Post Questions HERE)
My current lists have been a bit of a modification of the original posted list, while my friends LM army hasn't changed much at all. Our fights swing a lot more in favor now, until he gets his "Death Cult" (TempleGuard army) finished up. Then we'll be back to the drawing board or at least balanced out again.
Thank you very much for the warm welcome and the kind, and prompt, reply I'll make sure to peek a bit around and read more about it ^^ I'm sort of new to fantasy Although I've always been a w40k player at heart.
I got handed my friends chaos since he quit, and when I saw this post, I looked at my army and basicly saw the same numbers/models (except for the marauders of which I only have 13 on horses ).
Also read a few of your older posts regarding WoC.
You put a lot of heart and time in what you do, so my respect goes to you!
Hope I can learn something and put it to good use
One day mate, you'll see that fantasy is by FAR the better game
13 Marauder horsemen is plenty! 2 units of 5 or 6 with flails are good for hunting down enemy war machines and other fast Cavalry. It's the Marauder 'infantry' where you need loads of them. Still, if you don't have any Marauder models then you don't have to invest in them at all. One o my lists doesn't even feature any Marauders. It's warriors as far as your mutated eye can see!! These sorts of armies are called 'Full plate'. Basically, everything, every model, their pet dog and the toilet have full plate armour......
Hmm maybe I can post a list of my army so far and see what people say thanks to both of you for helping! I've been demoralized seeing the fantasy game less fun than 40k but I wanna play it the right way ^^
It can be a but weird when you first start playing. It's not as 'fast paced' as 40k games tend to be but combats tend to be more slug fests and, I find, a hell of a lot more brutal. Also the tactical side of the movement phase makes your brain work far more than it does in 40k. Whether you like the tactical challenge really depends on the person.
Army lists are always good