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fooling around with a chaos lord on a chaos dragon with the stream of corruption for a triple flame template drop in a single turn. My question is for the mathhammer junkies out there:
Is there a most-effective order to drop the 3 templates, as each one has a different strength value and armor modifier.
Start with the lowest strength first as this will leave the most models for later. Say you only kill three models with the first one you will get more hits and therefore more with the second and subsequent third hit as you higher the percentage of wounds. I'll work out the maths later if no-one else gets there first.
I don't have the rulebook with me right now but if I'm not mistaken you a model may only make one breath attack per single turn.
It's on the page on breath weapons. Correct me if I'm wrong I'll look it up tonight.
Well, the BRB would agree with you, but it's overruled by our Army Book:BRB
"A model with a Breath Weapon can use it to make a special attack once per game. A model with two or more different Breath Weapons can use each one once ... In the event that a model has more than one Breath Weapon attack, it is permitted to use only one in a single turn." (BRB, p.67, Breath Weapons)
Warriors of Chaos Army Book
"Chaos Dragons have two different breath weapons (see the Warhammer rulebook) and may use both in the same turn." (Warriors of Chaos Army Book, p.55, Chaos Dragons)
The Stream of Corruption is taken on the Lord, rather than on the Dragon, so he can use it in the same turn as the Dragon uses its Breath Weapons.
EDIT: el_don, you're fast...
Triple Template in one round, man that would be so nice against Dark Elves crossbowmen, you could fly in and make 3 units panic in one hit!
“If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley
take the -1 to panic tests demonic item on the lord as it also applies to his dragon so you cld make a few units panic if placed correctly
Doesn't a "Model" refer to the base? Meaning..wouldn't a lord on a dragon be considered a single "model" even though they have different characteristics for attacking and what not?
If true, then this would limit the breath attacks to either the two breath hits from the dragon or the single from Stream from the "lord on dragon" model.
I'm sure the BRB has a better clerification of it but I don't have mine on me. Anyone have a reference on this?
Warriors of Chaos > 3,000
Life - TBA
No, I don't think so. For the same reason that Frenzy doesn't cross from one to the other - if you have a Frenzied Chaos Lord on a Chaos Dragon, the Chaos Lord is the only model with Frenzy, right? Or, so I see it. So they count separately. I would expect an opponent to allow your Lord to use his Breath Weapon.
I would argue that the BRB still trumps on this, as it is talking about model rather than individuals. The Chaos Dragon and it's Rider, for example, are a single model and although the Dragon can use both attacks according to our AB, the rider doesn't count for this and cannot use his own as per the BRB. But hey, just a different reading of it.
Anyways, there's really no "best" way to drop the templates. Each will hit (and kill) the same percentage of targets each time. It's like applying tax when you have a discount coupon.
25% off $100 = final price $75 + 6% tax = $79.50
6% tax $100 = final price $106 - 25% off = $79.50
So if breath weapon is expected to kill 20% of a unit (2 in 10 guys) then it will always kill 20% of whatever is standing in front of it, be it 10 guys or just 3 of them. The reason that Commisar tells you to fire the lowest strength first, is because of rounding. If you only have 3 guys standing in front of a breathweapon with a 20% kill rating, you only score (on average) .6 wounds, which isn't enough to remove a model. If there had been 10 guys standing there, you'd have killed off 2 of them.
Let's test this off with theoretical breath weapon damage - say, 20%, 30%, and 50%, fired at a unit of 10. The first total given is in game terms, assuming we only target whole models (I'll show the math for that as well), the second number assumes that you can hit fractions of a model.
Starting with 20%, you kill 2 guys
Targeting the remaining 8 with 30%, kills another 2.4 (2 guys)
Targeting the last 6 guys with 50% kills you 3 more.
Total kills = 7, actual 7.2
Starting with 50%, you kill 5 guys
The remaining 5 hit with 30% = 1.5 (1 guy)
The remaining 4 hit with 20% = .8 (nobody)
Total kills = 6, actual 7.2
As you can see, on bare averages, you're going to kill the exact same number (7.2) of guys regardless of which order you fire in. However, since fractions of a wound don't count in game terms, going with Commisar and firing lowest to highest is going to net you the most in-game kills (by 10%).
The other thing to consider is that once you get below 7 models, you're going to hit more of them in combat (thanks to 2D6 auto hits in combat, averaging out at 7 hits). So you might not want to go blasting away with all three at the same target. Especially since some of the breath weapons in question are better against different types of targets than others.
Finally, that's a lot of points to sink into this character just for the opportunity to get 3 breath weapons into a single round. Antithesis said it would be nice against Crossbowmen, but the Dark Elf player will just laugh you off for using a 600pt character to kill off about 150pts of missile-troops.