Our horde formations to deal with other Hordes, Vampire and Ogres... - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Our horde formations to deal with other Hordes, Vampire and Ogres...

    I am fairly new to Fantasy, long time 40k player, and I am playing a team battle this weekend vs some vets. I am playing WoC and my mate is playing HE. We are playing vs VC and Ogres. We played this exact game like 3 weeks ago yet we didnt finish the game. What I saw scared me into thinkin I have no chance in winning. What they had:

    40 Grave Guard with Regen banner and 2 vampires in it.
    2 units of 80 Zombies (How can you get through this?)
    Terrorgiest
    Black Coach
    and a couple units of skeletons

    The Ogres
    20ish unit of Bulls with Slaughtermaster
    3 units of 6 LeadBelchers
    2 IronBlasters
    1 of the new large creatures with the ASL aura

    I ran a unit of 12 MoT Chosen with GW and Favor. A Lord with Hellfire sword was in here.
    lvl4 Shadow Sorc
    2 lvl 2s
    2 units of 18 warriors, MoK and MoT, Halberds and HW.
    2 Hellcannons
    2 Shrines.

    Looking for ideas to make a better list. I am thinking 40 Marauders with MoK and GW.

    Any help would be awesome! I have a little of everything.


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  3. #2
    LO Zealot Antithesis's Avatar
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    Try 2 blocks of 50 marauders with MoK/FC and GW's = 600 points for you, their expressions = priceless.

    “If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley

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    Senior Member Lolthien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
    Try 2 blocks of 50 marauders with MoK/FC and GW's = 600 points for you, their expressions = priceless.
    MoK/FC? What is FC?

    [EDIT] Nevermind, I'm guessing it means full command.
    Last edited by Lolthien; January 13th, 2012 at 18:23.

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    Senior Member Lolthien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flummer View Post
    ....
    2 units of 80 Zombies (How can you get through this?)

    ....
    One way fo' sho': Beat him on ranks, and destroy his steadfast. If you have two units of fifty marauders, reform them five wide and ten deep. He'll lose models in combat, and lose models again when he tests for leadership. Do this with one unit, then keep the other unit as horde. If you can get both units in contact with a single unit of zombies, it will be over in no time. There is no way he'll be able to rez enough zombies to deal with his losses.

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    Senior Member Noma's Avatar
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    I actually found knight's to be a better addition to my list than chosen against VC's when I played against them the first time.

    Just make sure you bring flaming attacks to deal with the grave guard unit, and a BSB to help with fear/terror tests.

    Against ogres I have always found marauders just massacre, and shadow magic is really really helpful against them as well.

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    Son of LO ikbuh's Avatar
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    Pit of Shades against Ogres is really unfair. Ogres are base I2, and since it removes models from play their 3 wounds mean nothing.
    40k: Silver Angels of Our Martyred Lady 7/2/3 - Daemons of the Great Squiggle! 3/1/0
    Fantasy: Windhost of Athel'Loren 2/0/0 - Daemons of Another Great Squiggle! 0/0/0
    Warmahordes: Legion of Everblight (Absylonia)

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    Rules Attorney BrockSamson's Avatar
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    These are decent matchups for marauders, but I don't like marauders, and if you're with me on that one, there are other solutions.

    A) 12 Chosen is too few, and any Chosen is too many if you are not using the terror banner shrine combo to get them a 3+ ward. Do that or replace with warriors. And NEVER use great weapons on warriors/chosen, you waste their wonderful 5Init, and 5Str is plenty when striking first.

    Knights will murder ogres in a straight up fight, and liquify them from the flank. Run Nurgle knights with banner of rage. You have to combo charge to have infantry deny ranks of an ogre horde, but smaller units should be jokes. (Speed bump with hounds to do this.) Each knight has 3 attacks, hitting 2/3 and wounding 2/3, which is a nice way of saying 4 ogres dead a round before horse attacks. Even three ogres on a flank will turn and hit only 3 times and probably only kill one knight, with no stomps. That's a bad day for ogres. Sprinkle a little shadow magic on top and it's a very bad day.

    C) Zombies... Tzeentch warriors will kill 10 a round, and the zombies will kill (assuming 6 warrior frontage)... Uh, 1 warrior every FIVE rounds. I'd suggest reforming for maximum frontage and swinging away. They will crumble like a bastard.

    D) Khorne halberds with the flaming banner will eat his Jerkenhof banner unit, no problems there. These guys should be a staple in your list.

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    Senior Member talismanictattoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flummer View Post
    I am fairly new to Fantasy, long time 40k player, and I am playing a team battle this weekend vs some vets. I am playing WoC and my mate is playing HE. We are playing vs VC and Ogres. We played this exact game like 3 weeks ago yet we didnt finish the game. What I saw scared me into thinkin I have no chance in winning. What they had:

    40 Grave Guard with Regen banner and 2 vampires in it.
    2 units of 80 Zombies (How can you get through this?)
    Terrorgiest
    Black Coach
    and a couple units of skeletons

    The Ogres
    20ish unit of Bulls with Slaughtermaster
    3 units of 6 LeadBelchers
    2 IronBlasters
    1 of the new large creatures with the ASL aura

    I ran a unit of 12 MoT Chosen with GW and Favor. A Lord with Hellfire sword was in here.
    lvl4 Shadow Sorc
    2 lvl 2s
    2 units of 18 warriors, MoK and MoT, Halberds and HW.
    2 Hellcannons
    2 Shrines.

    Looking for ideas to make a better list. I am thinking 40 Marauders with MoK and GW.

    Any help would be awesome! I have a little of everything.
    Looks like everyone covered most of the spesific advice regarding the units to use to counter the nasty stuff they are bringing.
    It would be really helpful to know what your HE partner is bringing to the table, as they can go either heavy on ranged support or on CC (hordes of white lions make me upset). They also have access to some really, really fun lores/spells that we don't normally have access too so take advantage.

    Just some comments with your list, 12 is pathetically small a unit for infantry. 18 is bare minimum and even then I find it lacking, units of around 24 seem to be doing it for me as of late.
    Not sure what your points are, but a lore, mage lord, and 2 level 2's is too character heavy. I tend to get by with a lvl 4 and BSB, but may take 1 more character tops just as backup.
    2 warshrines are a bit much. if you really want the chosen to get pimped out then by all means please put more than 12 models in the unit. If you want to spread the love around again the units should be of a size to warrent it. Perosnally tho i take the warshrines based on their Toughness, as the eye is so finicky it cannot be relied on. I see very little reason to have two Warshrines to absob the high str attacks, and even less-so when you have 2 hellcannons on the table who do the same job but better.
    MoK marauders should be 50;s and not 40's the extra rank make a world of difference in the later turns, you will actually have models left!

    The lore of shadow is a good choice for any game, and my basic lore for any all-comer list. it's hexs are not so good against the undead as they will be against the ogres, but the damage spells will do wonders for both armies. Lore of DEATH!, on the other hand, offers some other goodies too. The Hex is a good alternative to the shadow hexes, as they are remains in play and can get dispelled in your opponents magic phase, meaning the hex isn't around for the 2nd round of combat, or stops entirely if the caster is killed (killing yourself on a miscast for a RiP spell is the worst) whereas the death one will bearound for 2 rounds of combat, no more no less. The sniping spells, while not terribly well suited for vamps and ogres, are a huge threat to them as vamps are useless without their. . . . vampires! take out their general before he has a chance to touch you and they game is pretty much yours. also, purple sun puts pit of shades to shame. Last and certainly not least is the lore attribute: Death beats shadow hands down, esp if you are sharing a power-pool with the high elf. 1 purple sun will have you both unloading a salvo of terrible, magical doom!

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    Quote Originally Posted by talismanictattoo View Post
    Looks like everyone covered most of the spesific advice regarding the units to use to counter the nasty stuff they are bringing.
    It would be really helpful to know what your HE partner is bringing to the table, as they can go either heavy on ranged support or on CC (hordes of white lions make me upset). They also have access to some really, really fun lores/spells that we don't normally have access too so take advantage.

    Just some comments with your list, 12 is pathetically small a unit for infantry. 18 is bare minimum and even then I find it lacking, units of around 24 seem to be doing it for me as of late.
    Not sure what your points are, but a lore, mage lord, and 2 level 2's is too character heavy. I tend to get by with a lvl 4 and BSB, but may take 1 more character tops just as backup.
    2 warshrines are a bit much. if you really want the chosen to get pimped out then by all means please put more than 12 models in the unit. If you want to spread the love around again the units should be of a size to warrent it. Perosnally tho i take the warshrines based on their Toughness, as the eye is so finicky it cannot be relied on. I see very little reason to have two Warshrines to absob the high str attacks, and even less-so when you have 2 hellcannons on the table who do the same job but better.
    MoK marauders should be 50;s and not 40's the extra rank make a world of difference in the later turns, you will actually have models left!

    The lore of shadow is a good choice for any game, and my basic lore for any all-comer list. it's hexs are not so good against the undead as they will be against the ogres, but the damage spells will do wonders for both armies. Lore of DEATH!, on the other hand, offers some other goodies too. The Hex is a good alternative to the shadow hexes, as they are remains in play and can get dispelled in your opponents magic phase, meaning the hex isn't around for the 2nd round of combat, or stops entirely if the caster is killed (killing yourself on a miscast for a RiP spell is the worst) whereas the death one will bearound for 2 rounds of combat, no more no less. The sniping spells, while not terribly well suited for vamps and ogres, are a huge threat to them as vamps are useless without their. . . . vampires! take out their general before he has a chance to touch you and they game is pretty much yours. also, purple sun puts pit of shades to shame. Last and certainly not least is the lore attribute: Death beats shadow hands down, esp if you are sharing a power-pool with the high elf. 1 purple sun will have you both unloading a salvo of terrible, magical doom!
    Thank you for the great advice! As a side note I just got the whisper that the VC player has got ahold of the new book and I can gaurentee hes playing it. I know ZERO of what new nastiness is in it. As for the HE player. What I know for sure:
    30 Swardmasters with a prince
    2 decent blocks of spearmen
    40 archers
    possibly some Silverhelms or Balista's
    lvl4 Archmage. High magic

    We will share a power pool. Is the both of us bringing a Lvl 4 too much? I know I would bring the Power familiar and he has an equivalent. So thats an additional 2 Power dice. Thoughts?

    EDIT: It also should say that I get to play with Harry the Hammer. He should be beautiful vs the VC and Ogres. if you don't know his rules:
    http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/co...n=&aId=6500005

    EDIT EDIT: And yes I have the real model for Harry.
    Last edited by Flummer; January 14th, 2012 at 13:34.

  11. #10
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Your Elf friend needs a little help, to be honest. 30 Swordmasters is a waste, he should just run White Lions if he's going to run a block that size. Swordmasters should be split into units of 15. He also doesn't need the Prince in his list, and should be taking a BSB instead - Ogres and Vamps have enough strength to load wounds onto that Prince, he's doomed. Also, Lore of LIFE on that L4, High Magic is great and all, but you need to bring back models. Teclis if possible, a L4 with the Book of Hoeth or Seerstaff if not.
    Those "decent" blocks of Spearmen should be at least 30 models strong, and if he needs to shave points, he should drop those archers (he should drop them anyways - they won't hurt Ogres, and there aren't enough of them to phase huge VC units). He should also be maxing himself out on casting dice - Teclis is awesome here, but there needs to be a Banner of Sorcery in that list if you're splitting dice.

    In a game this size, I wouldn't even split the dice. We usually play team games with 2D6 PD per player, and the other team gets to pool the generated Dispel Dice. Magic-scaling is something that they really didn't handle very well in this edition, you're all going to end up very dice-deprived otherwise. Especially since you all seem to be bringing about 3k to the table.

    As for you - I'd leave magic mostly to your friend. He's going to need the Lore of Life spells for Regrowth and Stone Skin. If he can cast them on your units as well, that's even better. You should grab a L4 Sorc Lord with Lore of Shadows (especially if you can use him to swap with your HE pal's undefended L4 Mage). That should cover you for magic. If you want another caster or a scroll-caddy, use your BSB.

    The other advice that everyone is giving you is all solid. Another good trick that hasn't been mentioned, is that Lore of Shadows "Withering" or "Enfeebling" combine perfectly with "Curse of the Leper" from Lore of Nurgle (Festus knows this spell automatically, and provides Poison and a Regen, btw, totally worth it). Basically you use Shadows to drop their stat to 1, and then hit them with Curse to drop it to 0 and kill the entire unit. I've used this in the past to clear out entire blocks of Zombies and Skeletons.
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