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  1. #1
    Undying Baddie Immortal Scrub's Avatar
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    Balanced low points lists

    This is going to be a 2 part thread here, so feel free to only respond to 1 half if that's all you have input on.

    So to start off my local games workshop is starting a campaign next week in celebration of the release of the tamurkhan rulebook (a bit late, but we figured we'd let everyone recover from the holidays before we got started). The general idea is that WoC, DoC, and Beastmen will be pitted against all good armies and neutral armies will get to choose who they play for. We're starting off at 1000 points and adding on 500 once every 3 weeks up to 3000 points.

    Personally, I rarely play less than 2500 points and I never go below 2000, and so writing a 1000 point list is foreign to me. My initial thought was to take my usual list and shave off the non-essentials down to 1k, but then I realized that may not be the best way of going about this. I generally get into a specific way of thinking and never deviate much from it, so much so that every list I write generally has 90% of the same things with some tweaks here and there. This got me thinking, "hey maybe my LO brethren will have some new ways of looking at things" so here I am asking.

    1) How do you guys tend to write lower point lists? Is there anything that you absolutely cannot leave home without? Are there multiple ways to write a competitive list at such low points?

    2) The way I've been looking at this is a 14 man unit of Tzeentch warriors with a level 2 death sorcerer, a 40 man unit of Khorne marauders with GW's, 2 units of 5 dogs, and I have 266 points to spend on what I want. I know that at least one Tomb Kings player is going to bring 1 of the T8 sphinxes. How would you guys handle that? Options I've come up with are a Slaanesh giant, a hellcannon, and knights. Would you run any of those or would you not bother "tailoring" to deal with a sphinx. I've also been toying with the idea of a block of Khorne warriors with halberds for a more all around approach. My only hesitation with that is then I'm unsure of whether or not I can handle something that's T8.

    So there you have it. I'd love to know how other WoC players handle this kind of situation


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  3. #2
    LO Zealot Antithesis's Avatar
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    I start low points lists with my general/sorcerer - be sure to kit him out right to suit your army [Spell familiar or Third Eye]. I never leave home without my two blocks of 50 marauders, 600 points well spent every game.

    For magic, Death is hard to use well at low levels - Fire might be better - That means a Spell Familiar. Tzeentch on disc is very handy and could spam Roar like a horse race caller with tourette syndrome. Thinking about it though...why not Nurgle? Plague Squall is great against big monsters and buboes deals with the enemy characters, regenerate on 50 frothing marauders ^^.

    I wouldn't bother tailoring for the Sphynx beyond magic, but I would have a Warshrine of Tzeentch just to provide a super-blocker against any big nasties [His rare limit will be 250 right?].

    “If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley

  4. #3
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    My comments in blue:

    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Scrub View Post
    1) How do you guys tend to write lower point lists? Is there anything that you absolutely cannot leave home without? Are there multiple ways to write a competitive list at such low points?

    I have a few units that I consider an auto-include in any list and, if I don't have enough points to fit everything in, then I try to fit in "stages" that lead up to an end product. The three (or four) things that I consider must-haves in my list are: Sorcerer Lord; fifty Marauders with Mark of Khorne and full command; eighteen Warriors with Mark of Tzeentch and shields; a non-specific unit of Knights. When I say I try to fit in "stages", I mean, for example, I'll aim to fit in twelve Warriors, then bump to eighteen; I'll start with a Chaos Sorcerer, then gradually upgrade to a Sorcerer Lord. Stuff like that.

    For writing a list at 1,000 points, a Sorcerer Lord, full unit of Marauders and Warriors and a unit of five or six Knights will run you almost exactly to your total.



    2) The way I've been looking at this is a 14 man unit of Tzeentch warriors with a level 2 death sorcerer, a 40 man unit of Khorne marauders with GW's, 2 units of 5 dogs, and I have 266 points to spend on what I want. I know that at least one Tomb Kings player is going to bring 1 of the T8 sphinxes. How would you guys handle that? Options I've come up with are a Slaanesh giant, a hellcannon, and knights. Would you run any of those or would you not bother "tailoring" to deal with a sphinx. I've also been toying with the idea of a block of Khorne warriors with halberds for a more all around approach. My only hesitation with that is then I'm unsure of whether or not I can handle something that's T8.

    I wouldn't bother too much at such low points with tailoring. I'd also be tempted to leave the Warhounds at home. Level 2 caster with Lore of Shadow would probably do some nastiness to most anything you come across. Alternatively, at such a small game, I'd consider Tzeentch. The additional +1 to cast and the bonus to your ward saves would be particularly useful at low levels.


    So there you have it. I'd love to know how other WoC players handle this kind of situation

    Hopefully I've been some help.

  5. #4
    Rules Attorney BrockSamson's Avatar
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    You can't really afford a sorc lord at 1K without your army looking really small. My GW occasionally does 1250 tournies, so I have some experience with it.

    I really like a level 2 sorc of tzeentch with spell familiar, talisman of endurance, charmed shield. That will make him essentially a level 3 with a 4+ ward (2+ first hit), but he's on the cheap at 190, and you can toss him a third eye if you like and have the points. Leave the bsb at home... others armies might be able to field one, but not us, you will be hard pressed to field two characters. Also, some spells on that list really shine in lower point games... Gateway is a monster, and treason has more targets as ITP is expensive and left at home sometimes in smaller games. Even call to glory can ruin a combat at that level (and by the way a khorne marauder with a GW that is 'called' will get 5 attacks that wound a sphinx on 5s... not terrible).

    Even though I generally avoid marauders, they can shine at this level. At their point cost they allow us to keep a healthy number of bodies without breaking the bank. I'd take a single unit of war hounds, they can speed bump a sphinx or other nasty, draw out fanatics, help with a gun line, etc.

    As for special, stick with the usual knights and trolls, even small units of these will be beasts in a small game.

    Shrine is probably overpriced for this level. It's tough to crack, but it will break from combat. I'd say hellcannon. It's unbreakable for helping the flank, and it can shoot T6+ monsters, or panic infantry, or just flank charge and stomp the yard.

    Just throw gateway at enemy monsters too. If you get a good one through (7 Str 9 hits for example), that will be all she wrote. Even if it lives, your enemy will be much more delicate with it for the rest of the game, lest an errant naked northman greatsword deal the killing blow.
    Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times

  6. #5
    Rules Attorney BrockSamson's Avatar
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    And by the way, the chances of your level 3 getting a specific spell you want is about 3/4, so don't worry too much about not having gateway.
    Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrockSamson View Post
    Even call to glory can ruin a combat at that level (and by the way a khorne marauder with a GW that is 'called' will get 5 attacks that wound a sphinx on 5s... not terrible).
    Changing a Marauder with Mark of Khorne and great weapon into an Exalted Hero with Call to Glory doesn't give you the great weapon. You change one infantry model into one Exalted Hero model and while the spell is in play, the Exalted Hero is armed with Chaos armour, a sword and a shield. The downside is that he's worth 100 Victory Points if he's killed.

    Something fun to note about Call to Glory, though, is that because it's Remains In Play, you can cancel it at any point. You can change a Marauder into an Exalted Hero, challenge an enemy character, put the hurt on him and then remove the spell before your opponent gets to strike you back. It's a filthy spell if you want to cheese it up.

  8. #7
    Undying Baddie Immortal Scrub's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replys guys, it's been helpful. I think I'll try to playtest both a Nurgle and Tzeentch sorcerer and see which one I like better. Both seem to be good options in low cost games. As much as I hate knights I think I'll fill out my list with a group of 5 just because the rest of my list lacks mobility. Again I really appreciate all the advice. Anyone else have any input? *shameless bump*

  9. #8
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    I was breaking my 3,000 point list down into 500 point bits. This is my working 1,000 point list:


    Chaos Sorcerer
    - Mark of Tzeentch
    - Lore of Tzeentch
    - Talisman of Protection
    - Infernal Puppet
    - Third Eye of Tzeentch
    - 180


    18 Chaos Warriors
    - Shield
    - Mark of Tzeentch
    - Standard Bearer
    - (Standard of Discipline)
    - Musician
    - 341

    39 Chaos Marauders
    - Mark of Khorne
    - Great Weapons
    - Chieftain
    - Standard Bearer
    - Musician
    - 245

    5 Chaos Warhounds
    - XXX


    5 Chaos Knights
    - XXX


    Total: 996
    Last edited by el_don; January 15th, 2012 at 13:10.

  10. #9
    Son of LO ikbuh's Avatar
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    That also looks easily accomplished with two battalions as well, which I plan on having within a month. Hopefully. Is the infernal puppet that good? It seems finicky but entertaining.
    40k: Silver Angels of Our Martyred Lady 7/2/3 - Daemons of the Great Squiggle! 3/1/0
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  11. #10
    Member whatfruit's Avatar
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    Eldon's list looks solid and is the one which I would go for. Though I may swap the knights for trolls.
    "my heart pump gangsta"

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