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Got a few questions about Archaon here.
I have had his model since it first came out, I wasnt playing fantasy back then but I absolutely loved his story and the model was top notch.
It was because of Archaon that I started my Warriors of Chaos army last year, I wanted to build an army based on Archaon and his legions.
With that being said I wonder if any of you Chaos vets have any experience with him in games, (friendly or tournament). I know he isnt cheap, (like 685 points I think) and I wondered if he earned his points back in any way. My army isnt big enough to field him yet so I havent tested him, (or even put him together yet).
Archaon is a large investment, he really is one of those characters you pretty much base your army around. With nearly 700pts invested in him, you automatically have to think death star. Give him his own body guard unit of 10+ knights to run around with, and from there you'd probably want cheap units like marauders with great weapons to balance it out.
Yeah, to field him you pretty much have to be playing a 2750pt game, so I don't know how much experience people have with him. I know that I had the pleasure of running him in two separate campaigns though (one recreating the original Storm of Chaos but without the GW 'snafus', and the other where I got on such a roll that the GM just decided to let me have Archaon as a representation of myself on the battlefield)
There are some things to remember about Archaon though - firstly, he doesn't actually have the marks as they are described for the rest of the army. For example, he doesn't get the +1 to his Wardsaves from MoT, so the Magic Resistance 2 that he gain from being favored by Khorne, doesn't mean that he gets a 3+ wardsave against spells, he's still left with just a 5+, which is useless since he already totes a 3++ from the Eye of Sheerian. His Nurgle is better, it's a straight -1 to hit, meaning that a lot of people will hit him on 6's and he's of course immune to Poison.
The armor of Morkar is good for the 1+ armor save, but honestly, he could get that with straight Chaos Armor and barding from Doghar. The "only wounded on a 3+" only kicks in at S7 and higher. He's already immune to the most common autowound (poison) and spells that will rip him off the table don't roll to wound at all.
Unleashing U'Zuhl is a double-edged sword. 10 attacks is awesome, but you're practically guaranteed to inflict 1, almost 2, hits on yourself or your unit, ignoring saves of any kind. This can be a pain, because you want to toss him in with The Swords of Chaos, his knightly retinue, but you're better off adding him to a Marauder regiment (which then drops the usefulness of Dorghar's unbarded M8 )
Crown of Domination is one of his best rules honestly, since he has an 18" Inspiring Presence and doubles as a BSB. It atleast saves you points on a BSB. However, a BSB lets you reroll all failed LD checks, whereas an Archaon-reliant army only rerolls Breaks and Panics.
The Eye of Sheerian is pretty stock-standard, a 3++ ward isn't bad at all.
The trouble with Mr. Archaon is that he's overpriced even for what he does. He's cool to drop on the field, but honestly, you're better off using the current list of items in our book and the BRB to create a "copycat" Archaon with a typical Chaos Lord. Watch this:
Chaos Lord -
Mark of Tzeentch
Barded Steed -
Armor of Destiny, Shield - Heavy Armor and Shield + barding = 1+ armor save, and 4+ Wardsave boosted to 3+ by MoT
Necrotic Pylactery - immune to Posion, also immune to Death and Nurgle spells, also passes all characteristic tests
Book of Secrets - knows 1 spell, and has a +2 to cast thanks to MoT
Spell Familiar - knows an extra spell (not sure if this works with the book)
Total cost - 354pts
So lets look at what you lose between this guy and Archaon
1. Slayer of Kings - you now grant your enemies an armor save, which can be a bit of a pain. There are items out there to knock this down, but I wanted to keep this guy as close to Archaon as normal. You still have the same 5 S5 attacks, but you also lose the opportunity to go full-on suicidal and double that by unleashing the demon.
2. Eye of Sheerian, Armor of Morkar - ok, you lose nothing here (still 1+/3++, Immune to Poison) except for the "must wound on a 3+", but like I said, that's not usually an issue. What is an issue are spells like Purple Sun and Dwellers yanking you off the table. Not a problem anymore. You also pick up immunity to Death and Nurgle spells altogether, so they can't character-snipe you as easily as they could Archaon.
3. Chosen of Tzeentch - you still have 2 spells (assuming Book+Familiar is legal) with a +2 to cast. However, you don't have Tzeentch spells, and you miscast on a single D6, which can be brutal. You also only get a +1 to Dispel attempts since you're only a L1 sorcerer now.
4. Chosen of Nurgle - this one goes backwards a bit, since they're now at -1WS in combat, which doesn't help you much. However, with essentially WS9, most people are hitting you on 5's anyways, so no big loss. They're still at -1 to hit you with shooting attacks.
5. Chosen of Slaanesh - The extra 6" Inspiring Presence, and the Rerolls are actually the biggest differences, unfortunately. The rerolls not so much, but definintely the Inspiring Presence at Ld10 as opposed to the Lord's Ld9.
6. Chosen of Khorne - makes absolutely no difference these days since Magic Resistance was nerfed down to just a Wardsave.
7. Dorghar - is just a Daemonic Mount with an extra attack. You could take a Daemonic Mount, but you're losing out on Barding, which means no 1+ armor save.
8. Statlines - Archaon has +1WS, +1 Wound, and +1Ld. The WS isn't a big deal, since you essentially have WS9 because of the enemy being at -1 to hit you. The extra wound is good, that's a tough break, and the extra Leadership would be nice. Also, Dorghar has an extra attack over a Daemonic Steed, or 2 extra attacks and a point of strength and movement over a barded Chaos Steed.
By the way, you also still have access to 50pts of Gifts of Chaos for your character, as well as being able to field him legally in games as small as 1500pts.
I totally agree with you that Archaon is an awesome model, and that his fluff is pretty cool too. But his rules are a little lackluster, which is to be expected since in reality he could probably count as half an army by himself. His points cost is also a little prohibitive. I lucked out, he was simply "tacked on" to my army in both campaigns, first as an occasional cameo appearance at key battles, and then as a bonus for doing so well. If I had to pay the points for him in either situation, I'd have skipped him and gone for a build like this. Even this build is pricey and overkill, since we're starting with a Chaos Lord.
Sarathai: Actually Magic resitance now adds togther with any wardsave.
Ah, well, in that case, chalk that up to another thing that you lose in my version. I have heard that before, not sure how I messed that up. I guess it's from knowing that MoT is "special" because it stacks, Regen and Wards are exclusive, and playing 40k where you only get one save. Ah well, so he's got a 1+ against spells that wound him, still isn't going to save his unit, or save him from things like Dwellers.
Sarathai: Yeah, just felt like saying.
Thanks for the info and advice. I kind of figured that Archaon would look better on paper than he does on the field but I am still determined to use him at some point. However the build you provided Captain looks really solid as well and I plan on trying that build for when i just use a generic Chaos Lord in my regular non-character battles.
I love Archaon, he is a monster on the battlefield.
cannons need a 3+ to wound him, he has a 1+ armour save, and a 3+ wardsave (2+ vs spells) and the -1 to hit him and his unit is just sick.
I run him in 10 chaos knights with mark of nurgle and banner of rage.
banner of rage gives him 6 base attacks so you don thave to even pop his sword till round 3-4 and keep some of your knights alive.
mark of nurgle on the knights means that anyone who is WS3 or less will be hitting on 6's, that tied with their armour save makes them pretty hard to kill.
Ive run him 10+ times (I play a lot of big games) and he never fails to destroy all in his way. His sword ignores armour saves too which is pretty awesome.
plus hes a level 2 tzeentch sorc so +3 to cast is useful too.
Don't forget it is -1 to hit his knights, and also become immune to psychology - with MoT/Blasted this unit is very hard to shoot down and has amazing magic resistance too.
“If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley
Remember also that if the general is in a unit with standard of discipline, he counts as +1 Ld, so inspiring presence is also at +1 Ld, making a chaos lord essentially Ld 10.
Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times