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  1. #1
    Senior Member Korpacz1's Avatar
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    Help against demons

    There's a guy that plays demons in our league and I'm dreading playing him. He has a Keeper of Secrets, a huge 40+ horde of something, I think they're pink horrors that get a 4++ ward because of some lord/hero ability when he joins the unit, then he has 2 groups of three flamers. I don't know what to do against something like that... I can't face him head on with my 2 blocks of 18 warriors and I'm pretty sure my 40man marauder block would get overrun in 1 turn. I'm not even sure how to take out the keeper, that thing is vicious.

    Tips and advice are appreciated.


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  3. #2
    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
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    Well, you could start by giving us your list. You've told us more about your opponent than you've told us about yourself!
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
    Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010

  4. #3
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    Comments in blue!

    Quote Originally Posted by Korpacz1 View Post
    There's a guy that plays demons in our league and I'm dreading playing him. He has a Keeper of Secrets

    Keepers are nasty..... They're Mv10, Init 10 with ASF. combine that with a high WS and high str you're in for some hurt. Luckily they cost a bucket load of points so you should be able to bring a lot of stuff against him. A Hell cannon shot or two can bring him down. Failing that stick a Tzeentch War Shrine in combat with him to hold him up. Otherwise nerf his str with Shadow Magic and that will reduce the pain he brings.

    a huge 40+ horde of something, I think they're pink horrors that get a 4++ ward because of some lord/hero ability when he joins the unit,

    Pink horrors can be nasty. They count as a Level 4 sorcerer (at that size) but their level is dependant on how many models are in the unit so once they take a beating they become less of a threat. In combat they suck something chronic. They have a funky Ward save but their base stats are worse than Marauders so once you get in combat with them you'll chew through them. I had 4 warriors beat a unit of 30 into the dirt the last time I played daemons. (the horrors did kill the other 14 warriors with one spell though.........)

    The 4+ Ward they get is from their hero, a Herald of tzeentch, if you kill him the bonus is gone. Killing him shouldn't be too hard as his Toughness is fairly low, he has no save and relies purely on that 4+ Ward. He also sucks in combat. Once he's dead they revert back to their 5+ Ward



    then he has 2 groups of three flamers. I don't know what to do against something like that... I can't face him head on with my 2 blocks of 18 warriors and I'm pretty sure my 40man marauder block would get overrun in 1 turn. I'm not even sure how to take out the keeper, that thing is vicious.

    Flamers are possibly the most broken unit. They shoot D6 shots each that are str4, flaming, dont suffer modifiers for multiple shots......... Plus they are Str5 and have 2 Attacks in combat and are T4, 2W with a 5+ Ward so you can't beat them up with Horsemen or dogs. And Exalted on Disc with the Dragon helm can hunt them down easy enough though as he gets a 2+ Ward Vs their flaming ataacks

    Tips and advice are appreciated.

    Daemons can be tough. They're dirty nasty things but generally their lists tend to be the same as they only have a few units worth taking so you can know what to expect from them. Just put your head down and get into combat with him. It's the only thing you can really do Just make sure you know what his units do. Grab an army book off someone (there might be one on Scribd) and read up on them.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Korpacz1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marnepup View Post
    Well, you could start by giving us your list. You've told us more about your opponent than you've told us about yourself!
    I'm running:

    Lvl4 sorc (heavens or shadow) crown of conq, dragon helm, blood of tzeentch, conjoined homonculous, charmed shield
    Exhalted MoT, bsb, halberd, stream of corruption, talisman of preservation, favour of the gods
    *** lvl2 sorc (tzeentch), MoT, infernal puppet, enchanted shield, third eye of tzeentch

    18 warriors MoT shield, music/Std.
    18 warriors MoT shield, music/Std.
    35 or so marauders gw, MoK, FC

    5 knights MoK

    Hellcannon
    *** Giant MoS

    The *** indicate these can change. I can throw in another unit of MoK knights and beef up the marauders by taking out the giant. The store might have my 2 chaos chariots tonight so I might be able to run two warshrines or two chariots. I have a feeling the giant will be a total waste against his army. Maybe replace the lvl2 with an exhalted kitted out to kill the flamers (golden eye of tzeentch, dragon helm, halberd, etc).


    @Boark - great advice. I guess I'm going to try to magic down the keeper and flamers and hope my core can handle the pink horror block.

  6. #5
    Member whatfruit's Avatar
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    Horrors are really not that scary they are only WS3 S3 T3 they only thing they which is scary is their ward save and magic. Just get into combat early and wreck the herald you should be able to cut through them like butter then.

    The glaive of putrification was made for big multiwound beasties like the Keeper put him on T2 and see how much he wants to stick his points sink into combat.

    What other specials and rares does he field? does he use seekers or fiends at all?
    "my heart pump gangsta"

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    Senior Member Korpacz1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatfruit View Post
    Horrors are really not that scary they are only WS3 S3 T3 they only thing they which is scary is their ward save and magic. Just get into combat early and wreck the herald you should be able to cut through them like butter then.

    The glaive of putrification was made for big multiwound beasties like the Keeper put him on T2 and see how much he wants to stick his points sink into combat.

    What other specials and rares does he field? does he use seekers or fiends at all?
    I think he has smaller block of demonettes too. I know his army is really small in unit size. Keeper, 40-50 horror block, 2x3 flamers and 20 demonettes and a herald or two? Is that around 2500pts?

    The glaive is perfect for this situation, I just don't want to tailor my list to counter his, feels a little chessy and I'm not sure when else it would come in useful.
    Last edited by Korpacz1; January 31st, 2012 at 22:19.

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    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    Daemonettes are good flanking units. Units of 20 can dish out a lot of attacks. Again with High WS, High init and ASF with a Herald so they're more than a match for most flankers. However they're only str3. They have Armour piercing but that only gives them -1 save. A flanking unit of Knights should take them out easy enough. Even MoT shield warriors can beat them to the dirt as the Daemonettes will wound them on 5's and have to get through a 4+/5++ even after AP....

    Shadow is a good lore against them (and everyone). Enfeeble can turn units of Blood Letters or Greater Daemons into a feeble threat while Miasma can reduce the Initiative of Slaanesh troops or the BS of Flamers.

    Another thing to watch for is the Herald of Tzeentch. He's only a Level 2 wizard but has Lore master and can choose any Lore in the rule book. Most people I know grab Life so they can heal their units and to give their Horrors T7 (add that with a 4+ Ward and you're in for a long combat). They're nasty but they're only LVL2 so should be easy enough to dispel if you have a Lord.
    Last edited by Lord Borak; January 31st, 2012 at 22:30.

  9. #8
    Rules Attorney BrockSamson's Avatar
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    Just a heads up, you can't roll with the dragon helm and the charmed shield, both being magic armor and such.
    Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times

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    Senior Member talismanictattoo's Avatar
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    If the horrors are only T3 than perhaps some slaneeshi magic would work? most of the lore wouldn't be so good against deamons, but siezures should (on avrage) wipe out 1/2 the unit each time it is cast. 1 casting of it and his unit is cripled to the point of no return.

    deamons don't get out much to my store anymore, and when they do I don't see these units in use. Perhaps some advice on what to expect in the magic phase would be helpful, since he's banking on a strong one, you should know what gets priority on dispels.

    Also want to watch out for a changeling in the unit of horrors. Seen one of them, swaps stats in a challenge. Knowing the special rules for chaos he would be stupid not to take one.
    And don't worry about tailoring a list, it is only dirty if you agreed not to do it. IMO, you HAVE to tailor your lists to your opponent, otherwise you will spend years playing the same style of list over and over again.
    I'm sorry, i didn't cough up hundreds of dollars for models that will never get used because they only work in certain situations. *breaks rant*

  11. #10
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    oh god whats more fun than making a horde of daemons losing half a block to a 12+ to cast slaanesh spell? doing it again and again and again. I run shadow and slaanesh and my daemons friend just hates it.


    note: slaanesh's level 6 is really your bread and butter vs ITP (well and anyone for that matter) because it's the only useful one. But just incase you dont have it, make sure to bring your trusty 3rd eye to watch your back.

    And for the most part just ignore the flamers and focus on getting into combat with his nastier units, it really seems like the best counter to them.


    The odds are against us and the situation is Grim.But in the Darkness, we are invincible.

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