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It applies to ogres, dragon ogres, trolls, warhounds etc. It says in the book that they may use his leadership as if he were the general. Does this mean they have to be within 12" or not? It says nothing about range until the latter part of the statement when it talks about break tests. But it does say 'as if he were the general' and if he was the general it is 12"... Seems that they do have to do the range but I swear I read somewhere that that is not the case.
Thanks in advance!
**One more question I want to throw into this thread because its Chaos related. If a character with MoT joins a unit with MoN, and that unit is shot at, the BS against the unit is at a -1. After the hits have either missed or succeeded, I then apply the hits to each model as I choose but with every model getting at least 1 hit before it can get a 2nd. This way I can have a hit smack the character that joined the unit. But the character that joined the unit has MoT, so would I benefit from the ward save on him at that point? Because if that is the case, he has benefited from the unit's MoN and his own MoT, because the success chance of the hits were rolled against the unit THEN applied to him after. Am I doing that right? There is no verbiage anywhere that explains this... Not that I can find anyway.
Last edited by AshBorn; February 11th, 2012 at 06:54.
he acts just like a general, so a 12" leadership bubble, and he allows re-rolls of failed break tests for all monsters, warbeasts and monstrous infantry
on the second part yes you are right, but i dont believe you nominate who gets hit until there are more hits then models, before that occurs all the hits go against the unit?
Ok cool on the Throgg info I appreciate it. One more question on him, can I use his one use per game vomit attack right after I use his regular vomit attack in the same close combat phase? My opponent told me I couldn't because vomit is vomit and he already used it that turn....
Not sure on the unit thing but I hope someone can answer it.
Both the normal and troggs special vomit replaces the normal attacks. So when trogg uses a normal troll vomit attack, his normal attacks are replaced and as such can't replace them again with his special vomit. So you have to choise which one you want to use.
thats not correct Furrie. he has a breath weapon, and he replaces his normal attacks with his copious vomit rule.
You can use your breath weapon once per, either the template or 2d6 hits in close combat in addition to your normal attacks.
You can use your breath weapon and your normal attacks in the same phase.
the d6 vomit attack replaces your normal attacks, so you can do your breath weapon and your regular vomit attack in the same phase;
this total 3d6 st5 hits no armour saves allowed, and is one of the best ways of destroying people in challenges!
Throgg's rules have to be read with a grain of salt as it was written for the 7th edition wording. Note that you are correct in he is a 12" bubble for LD. He also acts as a BSB for those troops, but the wording is for a BSB in 7th edition where it only granted you to re-roll failed BREAK tests, not any LD test, so just remember that he only lets you re-roll the break tests.
Throgg's "normal" puke replaces his normal attacks, but his breath weapon puke is an additional attack (see the rules for breath weapons in the BR. With the way it is written you can arguably do both in the same turn, but its kinda sketchy. Again, his rules weren't written with 8th edition in mind, and breath weapons were never able to be used in combat in 7th edition. It comes down to your local flavor and how the rules are interpreted. If you go by strictly what is written, then you can do both. If you slow it down and think about what the fluff actually says is happening, you gotta wonder if one troll can really dish out that much puke in one go. Personally, 3d6 in one turn seems far too much to be fair . . . .. . from a model that is less than 200 pts. I pull the 3 template thing on my dragon lord, but thats 600+ points and the templates aren't even as good as throggs. Regardless of whether or not it's legal I think it's too much to expect my opponent to take a hit like that and not let it bring him down, so I just use his normal attacks whenever i want to use the breath for fairness sake.
As for your other question about shooting, think of it in terms of what is actually supposed to be happening on the battlefield. Those archers arn't picking their targets of individuals in the units, they are firing at a large mass of bodies. If this large mass stinks and is attacting flies than the entire body of troops become obscured and harder to hit. There may be 1 or 2 people in there that do not stink, but they are still going to be hit with the rest of the unit. The characters normally have enough bodies to hide behind to absorb all the fire until the unit starts to get small, and even then can still manage to avoid most shots.
Once you reach less than 5 rank and file models you have to start seperating attacks. you assign each hit to a model until you run out of models or hits, then you start round 2. so essentially you don't need to divide your attacks if the hits are low enough that the normal troops outnumber the number of hits. if the oppisite is the case, you assign 1 to each model and then start to assign the 2nd wound to models. for some you will want to assign as many to the troops as possible to protect your characters, but sometimes you might want to assign them to the characters first as they may have higher T, Armour, and saves, and if your at that point you need to start being concerned for losing the unit.
It should also be noted that his puke is magical, good to have vs them new vamps =P
Thank you for the detailed response guys. I did have a question that popped up from something you said.
" a model that is less than 200 pts. I pull the 3 template thing on my dragon lord, but thats 600+ points and the templates aren't even as good as throggs. "
This makes me think of the argument we had when I had galrauch in combat. My opponent only let me use one out of the three breath weapons on my initiative in that phase. I thought I could at least use one breath attack then his one use per game one after it. But the sentence about the once per game attack references the shooting phase but doesn't really say it can't be used in combat.. No where does any of it say I can't use two either.
Damn this game lol
his oponent chipping in here and pointing out for the most recent question page 67 of the brb specificly says if a model has more than one breath weapon he can only use one per turn...i know the model in question has two attacks and then a third breath attack listed sort of seperately but this is what i was refering to when i agrued he could only do one of them each round of combat...just wanted to clarify why i thought this as you folks respond
Two heads though on Galrauch. Each should get their own breath. You would think... Unless the fire comes from the same furnace in his stomach or something! Lol
WoC army book, pg 70: "Galrauch's heads can use either of the normal Chaos Dragon breath attacks (see pg 55)."
WoC army book, pg 55: "Chaos Dragons have two different breath weapons (see the Warhammer rulebook) and may use both in the same turn." (emphasis mine)
As such, Galrauch can use the two normal breath weapons in a single phase, or his Breath of Change. A Chaos Lord with Stream of Corruption riding a Chaos Dragon can then unload three breath weapon attacks in a single phase, two from the dragon and one from the rider.