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3 x 25mm bases across is like 2.95 inches, that means a stone thrower could technically hit 9 under the rock +4 more guys via .025 inch partial hits. Does anyone actually play like this?
Is there any authoritative publishing that states a stonethrower hits 9 guys and 9 guys only?
I don't know about authoritative publishing, but that's pretty much how it works. You can't really place the small template in a way where you'll touch more than 9 guys with any sort of regularity. It's one of the stealth benefits of being bigger.
totally wrong rothgar, sorry.
9 is your max if the center of the template is in the center of a model, which doesn't have to be the case. Read the rules for stone throwers (the assumed context as Hellcannon uses 3" template) have to have the hole in the center of the template underneath a single base (it can't touch 2), but has no other restrictions. Many people get this confused as the center of the template has to be in the center of the model, which is not the case.
using this method you can maximize to 14 if you really push it. I do mean push it, the only way I can tell that is the max is from putting the template over my modular movement tray which has the base locations shown. If you tried this in a game you would have a hard time convincing your opponent that it's touching 14 models as some of the coverage is so small it might not be seen in that context. for this sake I would probably only push the envelope to 12 as it is more than 9 and it can be shown to your oppoent in a manner that is very hard to dispute.
For those who lack the proper tools to do it yourself at home:
center of the template in the center of a base gives you 3x3 coverage. shifting the hole to the top of the basewill allow it to touch another row of 3 (bringing us to 12). from there you can slide over to the right to get a partial coverage on 2 more bases to the right, one of these will be a very small coverage on this base + one of the other bases you just opened up, but it does still touch both in a legal manner.
That's all well and good if you get a direct hit (and in that regard I stand corrected, but it's still a whole heck of a lot better than what happens if a similar approach is used to target 20mm infantry, which was my point), but that's usually not what happens. Scattering will take the template and blow it off-kilter, and it's very unusual to land in the precise spots where more than 9 guys at a time can be hit, because they're not all that common. Maybe you touch an extra corner or two and get 10-11. Maybe.
Last edited by rothgar13; February 13th, 2012 at 23:05.
I'm also concerned with direct hits. So people play 12 hits with a direct hit? Anyone with tournament experience on the matter?
My first impression was this is just an oversight due to the conversion from mm (Europe) to inches (US) where 3inches was close enough to 3x 25mm (76.2mm).
We play pick-a-model, it lands directly on his head, so no moving around on the base, just to keep things streamlined I guess. I know in 40K the same people use the base because models are more spread out.
Sorry, but the question was about how many models are hit, so i took that to be your point. You are right on that other stuff.
My point is that 9 is the count when you are in the direct center of a model. Chances of it being in the center vs another edge are not so high. 9 is the minimum for maximum coverage (assuming the template is well surrounded by sufficient models).
Direct hits should be for maximim coverage, known to the player to be 12 or more.
the chances of it scattering and landing in the center of a model is very slim. Chances are it will be on some form of edge, which will adjust the count higher than 9.
So no authorative publishings are needed, there is no hard maximim.
Now, going down to the fine details such as .05 of a inch covering, how do you call it? If you put it over the unit and call it and they call bogus, how are you going to prove it when it's so small you can barely see it, let alone when it's floating above the speartips? Push it far enough and you could be "that guy".
So while 9 is the minimum, the closer you are to that number the better off you may be. it's faster than being a stickler and you're giving your opponent something of a break on the buttsecksing your template just layed into him. They may appreciate it, they might not.
and like i said, the maximim isn't 12, it's closer to 14. But also as I mentioned, the ones over 12 are so small they can easily be contested. Your local flave, while inhibiting potential lends itself to a level field and a faster game. no need to even place the template on the table if you get a hit, you already know whats going to happen.
Last edited by talismanictattoo; February 14th, 2012 at 00:33.
The reason I ask was because there's this one guy, (there's ALWAYS "this one guy"), who wasn't sure how many a direct hit would hit (using the "center on a model" house rule). I took three guys out and placed them on the template. There was a tiny bit of green poking out at one end, so I did the math and the result was (assuming the mm to inches conversion was completely intentional), that it would hit 13 guys - 9 under the template + top & bottom of center column + extreme left and right of center row. We ended up saying 11.
So I'm here trying to get the standard practice on the matter - how do they do this in tournaments? I'm not so concerned about the GW rule book as it known to be vague and imprecise on occasion. (That's what happens when you have 2010 rules mixed with 2004 army books.)
The way we fixed this problem in my neck of the woods was to take an empty movement tray with the square lines in it and place the template on them, in about the same position the scatter ended, and go from there. Putting bases on the template doesn't work because the bases aren't see thru, but the templates (at least mine) are. And if yours aren't, get new ones.
Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times
Durr...throgg know 1" equals about 26mm. Bases are 25mm...so three dis way, an three dat way makes...um, nine? You gets dat many hits, or I calls da refs an says you cheating.
Ugh...I would think that the true max would be 16, with the nine that are commonly accepted, but with the center of the template offset from the center of the central target model just enough to touch three to one side, the two out of three on each adjacent side, and zero on the opposide side, like so (with "the nine" in red, except for the model under the hole, in green):
I don't think you can gain the purple Os without losing the blue Xs, though...
The bottom line, however, is correct. Claiming more than 12 hits is begging to be smacked with the BRB...it's just not in the spirit of friendly competition!
Last edited by Marnepup; February 14th, 2012 at 06:03.
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