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Yesterday I got a game in against my friend's choice army - his Lizards. I had meant to take up my High Elves or even my Empire army, but unfortunately I left both armies at home on their shelves (the will of Chaos is strong), so I decided to go out on a limb and write a Chaos army that could either win big, or fail hard. Here's what I wound up fielding, the list may raise some eyebrows:
L4 Sorc Lord w/ MoS, Talisman of Preservation, Infernal Puppet
Exalted w/ MoS, Steed of Slaanesh, Sword of Swift Slaying, Collar of Khorne, Shield, Stream of Corruption (joins MHorsemen)
Exalted w/ MoK, Jugger, Helm of Eyes, Sword of Battle (joins Knights)
Exalted BSB w/ MoT, Book, Scroll, Shield, 3rd Eye
11 Marauder Horsemen w/ MoK, Flails, Champ
22 Warriors w/ MoK, Halbs, Shields, Standard, Muso, Razor Standard (General and BSB join here)
50 Marauders w/ MoK, GWs
10 Knights w/ MoT, FC, Banner of Rage
His list was less interesting -
L4 Slann w/ Loremaster (Heavens), 1 enemy caster within 24" must discard all 6's
L2 Skink Priest w/ ?? Heavens
Skink Chief BSB w/ ??
Saurus Scar Vet w/ ASF, 5+ wardsave
Saurus Scar Vet w/ ASF, 5+ wardsave
23 Saurus Warriors w/ Banner, Muso, Spears
23 Saurus Warriors w/ Banner, Muso, Spears
33 Skinks, 4 Kroxigors w/ Banner, Muso, Spears
20 Temple Guard w/ FC, Halberds
Deployment was a bit of a SNAFU, with a mundane forest going straight in the center of the board, flanked by two medium-sized buildings, with some rubble strewn out along the midline. This is common for him, since he likes to hang back and try to out-magic me rather than advancing. There was another building in his deployment zone, and some hills etc in the corners.
His TG held the middle of his line, with the Slann, then Skinks to my right of the TG, then Saurus on each flank. The Dons went to the inside of the Saurus units, and slightly ahead of them. My deployment put the Knights/Jug combo on my left flank, my FastCav on the right flank, and my infantry in the middle to slog through the trees.
Turn 1 saw me 3rd Eye a Comet down on his lines, but nothing else did any damage. He cast a few spells from what he had in range, put a Comet in the trees, and then shot the Don at my FastCav and killed 3. His Saurus pivot a bit to take a front charge from the FastCav (good, if I break through I hit his Skinks in the flank)
Turn 2 the FastCav charged into his Saurus and are quickly seen off with only the Exalted surviving with 1 wound, and he makes a clean escape. Nothing else happens this turn. Neither comet comes down, he miscasts with his Skink Priest, taking a wound and killing a Skink and a Templeguard in the blast. His Razordon is out of range to shoot my fleeing Exalted, so he just shuffles his Saurus back into position.
Turn 3 the Exalted rallies and turns around. My Knights have to take another turn setting up their charge because he's currently using his second Don to redirect me across the front of his lines (pick a unit to have flanking your knights - there's no good choice). My comet comes down with spectacular results - kills off almost 10 Templeguard, 11 Skinks, and his Priest. I hit the Skinks with Siezures and drop almost the entire unit (awesome spell). Considered charging the Exalted into his Saurus to challenge out his Vet, but he'd just decline, so I run and hide to conserve VPs.
His comet comes down, kills off 8 of my Marauders and kills 6 Warriors from the unit. His Slann gets excited and miscasts to throw a boosted comet, rolls a natural 4, and blows himself up along with all but 3 of the remaining Temple Guard. I try really hard not to laugh at this.
Turn 4 I send the Knights into and subsequently straight over his Razordon, the Marauders say to hell with it and charge through the trees (lose another 8 to dangerous terrain) to hit his other Razordon, run past it, slam the Skink/Kroxie unit while also clipping the TGs. With his magic gone, and most of my units in combat, all I can do is Lash and Siezures his remaining Saurus, 11 and leaving him with just his front rank.
In his turn, my Knights feed his Scar Vet their Champion, my Exalted rips apart all 6 attacks worth of Saurus, the Knights tear up the rest, his unit hauls it out and flees off the board, chased by my Knights. His Skink/Kroxies have similar success against the 30 Marauders they're facing, and his TG are wiped out. My Halberdiers leave the trees and start marching for his last 6 Saurus on the table, and he calls the game.
The game got me thinking though. At face value, I love the Lore of Slaanesh, and I'd like to work on a way to combine it with a L2+Familiar with Shadows. There are fewer Psychology-based spells than you'd think, and even Titillating Delusions is good for the 1 move they have to make before they can dispel it in their casting phase. The JuggerKnight combo works well also, with MR1+Tzeentch giving the unit a 5+ against spells. This served to keep the unit at 100% despite being hit with at least 1 D6S6 spell every turn after the first.
The big question though, is whether or not WoC Cav armies are really dead. Understandably, Cav has always been a win-big/lose-big gamble, but I think that you could still make it work. Those Knights are 505pts, but if I knocked them down by 2 models and dropped the Banner of Rage and MoT for straight MoK, the unit only costs 390. Two of those, plus the Exalteds for around 225 each and your minimum 625pts of Core and you've only spent 1230. If you spent the rest of that on your General and other goodies, you might actually be able to do some damage. 625pts of MoK'd-up Horsemen is a LOT of Horsemen regiments - potentially 3/4 units of 10, or 2 units of 15. They die bloody, but if you paired 15 MHs with your Knights, you might actually be able to rip through a regiment in a single turn.
I was also thinking whether cavalry armies are viable, and considered MH for core. On the face of it, they look aweful, but I was considering the idea of running then with light armour and shields to help them avoid damage on the way in, and if they are being teamed up with knights, it doesn't matter that they aren't fast cavalry anymore, as you won't want them getting too far ahead.
Alternatively, you could try running their units in pairs to get enemy flanks and deny them ranks.
With the speed of your units, you should be able to focus on parts of his line and move on together, so that the lack of numbers doesn't tell.
But I would have to take dogs for dummy drops and chaff.
Another thought was not running a pure cavalry army, but supporting it and filling some of core with some warriors or marauders (but not too many), to support my cavalry a couple of rounds in, and to protect them from weight of numbers.
adamwelton "Bliss-giver is right as always."
"Opportunities multiply as they are seized."
I have been thinking the same. I have been thinking running them as a fast moving Flull Plate. A geared up MH costs about as much as a Chaos Warrior so numbers should be about equall right? For a Lord choice I would say a Slaanesh Caster Lord. This type of force seem to work best agains elites so they can break their ranks faster so I doubt their usefulness against undead anyways.
Last edited by The Odor; March 15th, 2012 at 22:14.
Wow! I love that list.
I may nick it, rip it to bits and rebuild it in my own image.
How did you field the marauders? Horde or deep column?
What was the rationale in placing both casters in the warriors block? Would it not be better to place them in the marauder unit as a horde to maximise the hitting power of the warriors and displace weaker marauders.
Finally, no standards in the horsemen or foot marauders?
Enquiring minds want to know.
Congrats on the win there dude. The more and more I think about it the more I want my next army to be Slaanesh and not Khorne (Damn you internet peoples).
Do you think those points invested in Exalteds would be better spent on More Knights though? You have 665pts invested in 3 2W models. Why not take another units of 12 Knights and bring the other unit of Knights up to 12 too?
To my credit, I wrote that list in less than ten minutes, and kept points scant because I knew I was putting a lot into characters and the knights. At the end I was actually about 180pts short and hastily stretched to fill it rather than truly analyzing the list.
Even in hindsight though, I doubt I would bother to invest in banners for the Marauders. The champion is only there to keep the Exalted from eating a challenge rather than ripping up RnFs.
The Marauders were a Horde, rather than a column.
In the future I believe that I might only field 2 exalteds, both on Juggers. I would lose my Book Shadows and 3rdEye, but most spells are LoS. Surprisingly, Slaanesh rarely requires LoS to target enemies, and therefore can be cast out of combat. I think I would even put the Lord on a mount. I've also even gone so far as to consider dropping him for a bare-bones Chaos Lord (i know, for shame).
What are every ones thoughts on DragonOgres compared to Chaos Knights? I may have to convert some up.
Just a heads up, I don't think infantry tests for dangerous in a forest, even when charging. Might be wrong there, but I do know they nerfed terrain testing to hell and back in 8th.
Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times
Only penalty infantry take in woods is they lose steadfast.
US Master's Midwest Advisor.
Come join me at my GT this September www.brewfestgt.com
I've considered all-mobile armies (i.e. no battle line, and nothing that's too slow), but all cav? That'd be hard, even for brets...
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010
I used to do very well with an all-cavalry army, both High Elves and Warriors, back in 7th edition. Granted, 7th was much friendlier to the horseman, but at the same time Cavalry sits well within my comfort zone, and if anyone at my local is going to make it work it's probably going to be me. There was a devastating all-cav Dark Elf list floating around the shop about a year ago, but it lost over 25% of the scenarios on deployment alone (no banners anywhere, so autoloses Blood&Glory, and cavalry always autoloses Watchtower).
Granted, 24 Marauder Horsemen would be a huge regiment, and Marauder Horsemen, even when mounted, are not as good as a comparably priced Warrior, but that doesn't mean that they're terrible. We WoC players are spoiled, in that certain units of ours (Warriors, Knights) are shoe-ins because they are almost underpriced in terms of their effectiveness. The price of a Marauder Horseman with a Flail and MoK is almost equally amazing, but because of the Infantry focus, we demand that they be even cheaper because they only fill a very narrow tactical role in those armies.
Cavalry armies are a double-edged sword. Half of the game is all about VP denial, while the other half is about inflicting as much damage in as short a span and with as little risk as you can. It's a total change-up from what most 8th ed players are used to. I have essentially 2 deathstars that are much faster than anything you have, and they're backed up with other fast units so that my entire army can pick-and-choose it's battles.
The most basic tactic for a successful cavalry army is to Circle, with your units preying on lighter/faster enemies early in the game - all the chaff units like Hounds and Scouts and Bowmen. Then cut in hard and go for the throat at the end of the game - charging 2 or more units into the flank and rear of their Deathstar on turn 5/6 and running it down.
The best counter to that - and my friend knew it from all of our 7th ed games - is to stay tucked in along your the back of your deployment zone so that the enemy can't get behind, and can't roll your flank by multi-charging the outermost unit.