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First question, Shadows 4th spell, The Penumbral Pendulum, it causes multiple wounds. Now, if it hits lets say 5 models in a 25 models unit, and 3 of these dont pass the Initiative test and it rolls a 6 on the multiple wounds, do 9 models die now or is it still 3 couse multiple wounds dont spread? All of the models have 1 wound obviously.
Second, Im getting completely raped by Brettonia. The thing is, in doesent matter if I kill a lot of guys, or I they dont kill a lot of mine, its all about whenever he charges me or not, becose he gets so many Combat Resolution bonuses that I almost always have to test on something like a -10 Ld and run away ane he slaughters me. He gets a base 4 combat resolution just from Standards and some Virtuesomething. Since his units are so heavily armored I rarely kill more than he does and he usually has more ranks.
Heres what Im using:
23x Chaos Warriors, Full Command w/ MoT, Halberds, Shields and under a Banner of Rage.
Exalted BSB w/ MoT, Halberd and a Razor Standard (goes into Warriors)
16x Marauders Full Command (couse I dont have any more, Id obviously make a 40 unit horde out of them if I could) w/ GW, MoK
8x Knights w/ MoK, Standard and Musician, Rangers Standard
Sorcerer Lord Lv 4 w/ MoT, Infernal Puppet, Tzeentch Blood, and on a Disc
15x Chosen, Full Command w/ MoK, Halberds, Shields, that Eye of the Gods manipulating thing wich name in English I cant remember and a Wailing Banner.
From what Ive seen he has 2 units of 9 Knights, one with a Prophetes, a unit of 12 Grail Knights with a battle Lord, a unit of 12 and a unit of 16 Archers and a Trebuchet.
Those 16 marauders are pretty much worthless, imo.
You need a lot to be worth anything. I would either drop them for speed bumping puppies, or buy more models for at least 30+.
If you are worried about SCR, pop a war banner on something or whatever that banner is that gives +1 CR.
On the warriors I'd rather do MoN if they are charging and getting a lot of wounds on you anyway. Just lose the bodies and hit him back hard as hell. I'm not sure Bret's WS so you'd have to compare and see if MoN would make a difference. If not, stick with Tzeentch. Math shows Tzeentch working better except against shooting, but I usually only like to pair it with shields... Personal preference. Also, you could make this unit sword and shields with a 5+ ward save.. Or even add something like Festus into it.
Also, challenge with your exalted if you give him a nice ward save (charge from a bret would really hurt your exalted probably). That would at least absorb one guys hits and get you some overkill CR maybe.. Pop stream of corruption on him too possibly.
The last thing I would say is make your Sorcerer shadow. It'll really hurt his combat effectiveness which seems to be your problem. Reducing their strength, movement, toughness, initiative and making your guys hit with their leadership as their strength will pretty much give you an auto win in combat verse any cavalry hard hitting army.
I've never played Bret but heavy cavalry that needs charges, the above tips should apply and give you an easy win. From what I understand, they are not a huge problem for WoC.
**Not sure what Tzeentch blood is...
***To answer your Penubral question, multi-wounds will ever only kill 1 model, period. Same as with stone throwers etc. Also, if it is like a cannon ball, it'll only ever kill one guy per rank, and if the first guy that it hits doesnt die, if I'm not mistaken will stop the cannon ball and no one else will have to take the test. If the unit is getting hit in its flank or something, use your file as ranks.
Last edited by AshBorn; May 4th, 2012 at 17:37.
As for the marauders, when you are playing with limited models, you take what you have. When they are that small I would recommend taking flails over great weapons so that they get at least one decent round in.
As for the warrior block, try taking MoN (as most Bret's, and most human units) are WS 3. Then take a Heavens caster for Iceshard. MoN will make him hit on 5s, Iceshard will make that 6s, and he has -1 ld on top of that.
Also, remember that he has almost as strong a compulsion to accept challenges as we do, as his whole army will lose the Blessing if he ever refuses. So if he charges with some super fighty character, just offer your Champion, while your BSB goes to town with a halberd
Last edited by Papa_Wheely; May 4th, 2012 at 20:05.
I play brets as my second army and there are 2 things I hate to face when playing against warriors: a hell cannon, roar and a chaos lord. Those things can really ruin a brets day
Ah well there ya go. I don't play against cannons really. Just bolt throwers lol. Just remembered reading something like that in the book.
50 marauders will do the trick with steadfast. Once you're past the first round of combat they're really not that scary at strength 3. I usually take blocks of 18, but against brets I line them up 5 wide with 3 stragglers so I can lose 3 guys before losing a rank bonus.
As mentioned before, i would also give the marauders flails when there are only so few of them.
Also i would have 12 or 18 chosen instead of 15. And run them 6x2 / 6 x 3
Why 8 knights? are you sticking your disc lord in there with them or? If not i would make it 5, 6 or 10 knights instead - but maybe it dosent matter much against Brets since they have those wierd knight spear formations. Against other armies running knights 5 or 6 wide is usually the optimal choice.
Im not sure why you are giving your Warriors both mark og TZ and the banner of rage. Mark of TZ is best used in combination with other ward saves like Blasted standard / magic resistance / ward from shields in HtH combat. But since you have given them the halbards you just get the wardsave. But i guess if you dont need the points anywhere else a +6 ward is never a bad thing
IMO i would never use the Razor standard, its way too expensive for what it does in my book. But in this case when you KNOW your mainly fighting heavily armored knights, i get the point - and guess its not a bad choice.
As Defcon said, Roar(gift) is fantastic against heavily armored or high toughness units, and i almost always bring it on one of my characters no matter who or who im facing.
If you could make room for some hounds in there i think it would be great to misdirect his charges, place them at cock angles in front of your main units forcing him to charge them, but make sure to place them so that he cannot just overrun into your next unit, but will have to reform. And then if you do it correct you might be able to get the charge off on him instead and having a much better chance of winning the combat!
As for magic, im not quite sold on the idea of taking Heavens. I think you would do better just staying with TZ or choosing Death/Shadow instead and then putting your lord on a horse / on foot instead.
Shadow is all around good, and might help you win some of the combats by crippling his knights wuth debuffs. Also spell 4 you mention in shadow is great aginst Brets because of their many ranks in knight formations.
Death on the other hand has a lot of killy spells that ignore armor saves, but some of them require very short range, and it might be hard getting those off, before he lands a charge on you
You might also want to take a look at the rapturous standard, it gives you a 44.4% chance of getting insane courage on every roll. That might help weather the charge and let your troops stick around regardless of combat res.
as mentioned, knights really lose their power in the 2nd round of combat when they no longer have their lance bonuses. Since their SCR can just get piled on in ways ours can't, and they will take less damage than you when they charge, your best hope is stubborn. Easiest way is crown of command. If you want to be overkill about it, put it on a chaos lord and give your unit the +1 ld banner for LD10. Note that the banner states you cannot use the general's inspiring presence, but since he is in the unit, you aren't, you are using the highest ld in the unit which avoids that stipulation.
Personally I thinkt hat is a bit much, you should be fine with just the crown on any character, providing that your BSB is around to make the re-roll.
The important thing here is to bait him into the unit that has this. appearing overzealos and presenting yourself as a juicy target for the pain train. Once he hits the wall the pain-train becomes a trainwreck and you can move in on the flanks with supporting units.
If nothing else don't forget steadfast. If you have more ranks than him, you never take a minus on your LD check at all in close combat. So just rank up 30 marauders 5 wide and 6 deep and tarpit the hell out of him.