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If there is one thing I cannot stand about this edition of Warhammer, it is the magical dominance, where not taking magic is gimping your army.
With that in mind, I'm trying to roll a list with as little magic reliance as possible, while retaining enough anti magic options to not get tabled and give my brutal units a chance to kill the puny elves/humans/whatever before they magically become superfast, strength ridiculous powerhouses.
Seeing as I don't intend to cast any spells, I've been trying not to take a wizard, my BSB currently has the book of secrets so he can grab a dispel scroll and be the obligatory anti dreaded 13th screen, but other than that I have few ideas on how to stop my opponents magic.
Against some enemies with low initiative it is enough to throw puppies or marauder horsemen at the corner of the wizard bunker and hope to take the (usually) t3 2 wound weakling with them. Against things like elves however, this strategy usually ends up with my guys dead or mostly dead before they can even strike.
Anyone in the community got any strategies they could share?
How many points are you playing at?
Chaos Knights are generally pretty good against magic, so are trolls.
Marauder Blocks are very safe bets too.
“If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley
If you're not buying up magic, you need to change the fundamentals of your army. You need to focus more on wounds rather than saves, so Marauders will replace practically all of your Warrior blocks. Knights are good as hard-hitters, since there's not much that you can replace them with, but I'd grab up Tzeentch, and pair them with characters who tote Magic Resistance items to make them more resilient during the Magic Phase. Otherwise, the points that would normally go into Sorcerers should be put into building 1-2 "hammer characters" who have enough mobility to tip a fight in their favor. The argument between using Lords/Exalteds in place of more Knights will always be hotly contested, but I'm of the opinion that Heroes pack a slightly smaller punch in a much smaller area (more 'PSI' in a way) which makes them more flexible than a larger Knight block. Of course, combining Knights or other units with Characters is the best way to go.
As for the magic defense? A scroll or Puppet at the most, and then just try to get into combat ASAP to stop the missiles and start hurting those enemy wizards. You pretty much have to suck up that you're going to take most of your hits during the magic phase, but that's why you started buying up units of 40+ rather than units of 18. You have wounds to spare, and that should get you across the field against all but the most ridiculous magic phases.
I'm not familiar with how magic is nowadays but is using MR a viable option? Having MoT warriors with characters that have MR items should provide good protection I would think. A wailing banner chosen unit can very likely get a 3+ ward and two MoT warrior units with a character (BSB and exalted) in each could easily have a 4+ or 5+ ward against magic.
I guess the big question that my lack of experience in 8th cannot offer an answer to is whether or not the toughest magic is damaging magic. Is hex/buff magic more common or more powerful? I personally am going to come out of the gates using shadow magic in my list because it avoids MR (on top of being a strong and fun looking lore to play)
Yeah MR helps but not against spells that do not allow any saves at all.. Like Dwellers, 13th.. etc.
The toughest 2 types of magic are buffs/debuffs and nuke spells, neither of which gives a damn about Magic Resistance. That rule is pretty conditional in its use. This thread pops up every so often, and the answer I always have is cover your essentials (Dispel Scroll), bring units that can counteract or at least mitigate magical nastiness (for example, a Chaos Lord of Tzeentch riding on a Disc with a 1+ armor save and a 3+ Ward save can hold against a lot of things, whether they're buffed or not), and bring lots and LOTS of bodies, because you're going to take heavy casualties. I think you'll come around to using magic after you have a run-in or two with Slann-led Lizardmen or Herdstone Beastmen, but until then, good luck!
"The best defense is a good offense." -Gen. George S. Patton
My philosophy on gaming, courtesy of Herm Edwards.
After having faced several heavy casting armies (2skaven L4, 2 slahn, Teclis, that tombking special character, herdstone,..) I personally found this build really efficient:
L4 Tzeentch, puppet, third eye, conjoined, other gear depended on the list (chosenshrine or not to chosenshrine, basicly comming up with a 3+ward).
He has some good spells and can throw my opponents spells back into his own face wich is always funny (I loved casting dwellers against Teclis's unit).
With a +1 and an average of 2 on the D3 wich gives a +3 on average against an +3,5 average for a Slahn/DE build ins't that bad espescially considering the bonus on miscasts with the puppet and the wardsave, addding the 3d spell and you've got a solid magic defence (either miscasting or dispelling with power dice).
This guy can have 4 to 16 spells (depending on how you play it, and the army you're facing) in a 2000pts game wich is down right awsome.
If the puppet ins't allowed (which happens frequently in my region) you can always take another +1 to cast.
And with the 3+ ward he can take chalanges.
Wait... You mention Khatep in the same breath as Teclis and slann priests? That's a riot. For 330 points, a L4 with no save and loremaster of a middling lore who gets one reroll of casting dice is OP?
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
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Defcon the whole point made by the OP is that he doesn't want a caster.
I agree with what's been said here. Get a scroll/puppet and from there take as many wounds as possible to mitigate the fact that your overall ability to dispel is below standard.
Another idea for playing against magic might be to simply have a scroll caddy? This way you can have some scrolls and use your dispel dice well? You use RiP spells in your turn you might get lucky and get one off and force him to waste PD. Also I know you do not want a wizard but you can always be creative. Maybe use a warrior holding a banner with a crucified wizard and the essence of the spellcaster is what creates a level of resistance against enemy magic. Maybe a crazed hermit-type warrior. The basic idea is that you can make your army look and feel the way you want without limiting your unit choices.
Do you use any place holders for larger units? You could even write up to where your place holder (some sort of monolith or magical shard) is what is creating the magic defense and for gaming purposes have a differently painted warrior or marauder represent the wizard for attack allocation purposes. I could sit here and keep writing up different ideas but if you like this concept I'll let you continue the brain storming.