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Hello, Since you guy helped me out a few times before I thought to ask your opinions once more:
I still don't know wich lore to choose from. I like death / shadow or tzeentch.
I've thought it out:
Pros: Helps out in combat. Pit of shades can be nice but can scatter off
Cons: No real damage spells (wich we can really use cause of the lack shooting).
Pros: Sniper spells / the 6th spell is nice/ can also deduct strenght and toughness of enemy units.
Cons: I find this lore to be great against some armies and not that good against others (against characters with good ward saves / units of high initiative it's not that good).
Pros: Some much needed range / can mess up enemy magic and LD.
Cons: Nothing to help us in combat against some nasty units....
So I'm stuck.
I only have one lvl4 wizard (no more points for a lvl2). But had some ideas' to get the best combo possible:
*1: Lvl4 with shadow magic and the eye of tzeetch gift to get enemy spells that can do damage.
*2: lvl4 with tzeetch magic and turn my exalted with bsb into a level 1 wizard with the book of secrets and a spell familiar (lore of shadow) .... Only downside is the bad miscast and he looses his 3+ ward save for a 5+ parry save.
*3: to just get acces to one lore for my level 4 .... but wich one???
Please help me out by giving your thoughts and experiences.
If you only have 1 mage than shadows is the way to go. Death and Tzeench can both be great, but can both flop terribly with some spell combos vs some armies. with shadows, - D3 stats is ALWAYS good, and you are certain to get at least 1 or 2 of those spells. and of course the flip side is that the Remains In Play spells also work decent as a magic defense as people will throw power dice at dispelling them in their own magic phase (both an upside and a down).
3rd eye isn't a great backup plan for a level 4, as it prevents you from casting your own magic. so it is something that you would only want to use if the spells your opponent has are all better than what you have access too yourself. You're paying for those spells, and at a fairly high price too. spending more points to get rid of them doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
I agree with Talismanictatoo, shadow is the way to go if you have to choose one. You don't need to whittle down your enemy with shooting if you can just decimate them in CC. If you're worried about warmachines, pit and pendulum are better than the ranged magic attacks of most lores.
Tzeentch has some very nice spells, problem is it also has 2 (in my opinion) very bad ones, call to glory and baleful transmog. I'm sure people will give you examples where those two spells are amazing, but more often than not they're underwhelming. Having said that, Treason of Tz and Infernal portal are downright AWESOME spells, both have the ability to cripple expensive units, regardless of the size. While flickering fire is a great (if not randomish) utility spell since it negates regen, and pandemonium is a great spell too. The challenge is that you don't want to end up with one of the "bad" spells let alone both.
Death... has some incredible potential, but in my opinion there are too many if's in the formulas to make it very reliable for sniping... FIRST successful cast, THEN character test, THEN roll to wound, THEN they get ward save. However, Curse is solid, so is Purple Sun.
I both agree and disagree about your lore choices. For the Lore of Shaows, I do agree that it s the easiest to fit to most any list, due to how it allows us to dominate a given combat phase, but I would not say it is best. On a level 4, particularly if it has support from another lore, death can be a real winner. The sniping spells can be great early, Soulblight is great once you've made contact, and Doom and Darkness is great all game.
MoT is great as a fire support lore, with Gateway and Flickering Fire providing some ranged potential, and coupled with the 3rd eye, can cause headaches all game. Largely though, you just have to find what fits. For instace, you might find that Heavens suites your needs what with the ranged damage compensating for our lack of ranged support, and then the other spells helping in combat.
No matter what people say, nothing we can offer will comparen to you trying out these options and testing them against your opponents and with your army.
And by the way, Korpacz1 , where in LA are you? Cause I am consistently at either the Mission Viejo store or the Tustin store. Are you around here?
Well, I've tried different lores .... Heavens / death / shadow / tzeentch / slaanesh and even nurgle.
But the three I mentioned are the ones I like most. I just can't decide wich to choose for the tourney.
I wanted to use death ... but then I encountered something that made me change my mind again. I know you can't be great against all enemies, but I want to get the best against most targets.
Right now I'm leaning towards death and shadow.... I've just shadow all the time but then I tried death a few times and I liked it..... because of the potential to kill things (wich shadow is lacking).
But I read you guys prefer shadow over death when you only use 1 lvl 4 wizard?
And what do you think about the lvl4 with death and the exalted with book of secrets (spell familiar) shadow?
Or do you think he should have the 3+ ward save?
Thanks so far for helping me out.
I was saying that Shadow is the safer bet because there are so many useful spells, so you are guaranteed to get some good spells, whereas Death has (I would argue) better spells, but there are fewer of them. Soulblight and Doom and Darkness are always useful, but there is no guarantee that you will roll those spells. For my army, I prefer Death to Shadows, but to each their own.
Death would be my pick for a level IV as well, if you have a hellcannon, knights, wailing-banner-Chosen, or trolls it's great fun to cast D&D.
“If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley
Agreed. Just for the occasions you manage to pull it off, running a list with near-exclusively Terror-causing stuff (combining Doom and Darkness, the Doom Totem and Hellcannons, for example) would be pure awesome. You could probably also make it competitive against all-comers for the occasions you face an Immune to Psychology army.
Three Hellcannons hitting units and causing panic tests with a -5 modifier would be just pure filth!
El Don hits on another point: The more preferable lore will also largely depend on the build of your army. D&D is maximized with lots of terror/fear causing troops are present on your end. If you have more vulnerable units on the table shadow hexes will help keep them alive. Where is the mage going? If he is in one of your key units, he has a higher chance of being in range for the death spells. If he is in a bunker that is supposed to stay away from combat to keep him safe, shadows would be preferable.
I suppose it isn't really just about spells, finding the balance of the lore with the list is also key.
But on the other side of things, this is a tournament. Death is on the extreme end. in one phase you could effectively end the game, or accomplish nothing at all. Shadows is a little bit more in the middle, there won't be a game-breaking spell cast, but there are more spells that are viable to be blasted out. So it really depends on how you want to roll, do you want to go all in for the big bomb, or play more conservatively and trust in your guile?