Hellcannon rules check

[Beast of Carthage]

I was having a disagreement with my local GW staff member regarding shooting attacks against the Hellcannon, it states in the WOC rule book that hellcannon is hit on 1-4 & the crew 5-6, but my GW staff member member says the crew are always ignored so all hits have to go against the cannon.

Also in the main rule book regarding monsters & handlers rules it says that any unsaved wound roll a D6 1-4 the monster takes the wound 5-6 the crew, does this included wounds from close combat?

Thanks

[andronicus]

Yes. That's correct. The hell cannon follows all of the rules for monster and handlers and it shoots like a stone thrower. Shooting hits against the cannon are randomized after they "hit", as are close combat attacks. It's almost like a ward save for the crew.

[Defcon]

The hellcannon follows the rules of monsters and handlers so this gives:

Any shooting, magic missiles, direct damage spells and CC are resolved against the cannon. So your opponent has to hit and wound against the cannon always. The dwarves cannot be targetted.
When the hellcannon takes a wound then you, you try to save with the hellcannons Armour save and then if failed you randomize to see who takes the wound, the hellcannon (1-4) or a dwarf (5-6). These rules can be found p73 of the BRB

[Disk Rider]

Here is another one, while we are on the subject.

I had somebody shoot one of mine with a stone thrower and cause a wound, but not kill the hellcannon, when I went to randomise the hit he said that it was a template and would hit all the crew as well. Is this true or does the handler rule allow the hellcannon a kind of wardsave against the high strength centre of the template?

[Defcon]

Again see p73 of the BRB. The handlers are ignored, they cannot be hit not by anything, you should consider them as a kind of markers. When hit by a template use the same rules as above. When multiple wounds are to be rolled roll them after the randomize.
Monsters and handlers are kreepy fellows but do note that when a heroic killing blow has been struck they are all gone.

[HellcannonsRcool]

another thing thats awesome is you roll for all the wounds once you fail the hellcannons armour save, BEFORE multipliers, so a dwarf can stop a cannonball.

also if you have a horseshoe up your butt, and you take 5 wounds with one dwarf left, and you roll ALL 5s and 6s that awesome dwarf takes all 5 wounds and the cannon is untouched.

[talismanictattoo]

another thing thats awesome is you roll for all the wounds once you fail the hellcannons armour save, BEFORE multipliers, so a dwarf can stop a cannonball.

also if you have a horseshoe up your butt, and you take 5 wounds with one dwarf left, and you roll ALL 5s and 6s that awesome dwarf takes all 5 wounds and the cannon is untouched.

I'm pretty sure that isn't how it works. You should roll 1 wound at a time.

[HellcannonsRcool]

Hrmm, after re-reading the M&H rule i can see were your coming from with the word wound not being plural.

Plus it doesn't say that "The handler takes the wound" as if they would be able to take more then one, it says they are removed, so 1 wound would remove a handler then they would have to roll the next wound and so on.

[Korpacz1]

I think you randomize the wounds AFTER rolling to wound against Toughness, but BEFORE you roll the armor save. Correct me if I'm wrong, the BRB says randomize wounds, not "randomize unsaved wounds".

Also, if you have 20 wounds against the Hellcannon, you should randomize the wounds all at once, not one at a time. There are plenty of situations where wounds are wasted, (2 guys left in a unit take 10 wounds, cannon does 6 wounds to a model with only 2 wounds, overkill in excess of 5 wounds in a challenge). It happens. So if you take 10 wounds and you roll for 5 of those wounds to go against the dwarves, then 2 wounds are wasted.

[AshBorn]

I think you randomize the wounds AFTER rolling to wound against Toughness, but BEFORE you roll the armor save. Correct me if I'm wrong, the BRB says randomize wounds, not "randomize unsaved wounds".

Also, if you have 20 wounds against the Hellcannon, you should randomize the wounds all at once, not one at a time. There are plenty of situations where wounds are wasted, (2 guys left in a unit take 10 wounds, cannon does 6 wounds to a model with only 2 wounds, overkill in excess of 5 wounds in a challenge). It happens. So if you take 10 wounds and you roll for 5 of those wounds to go against the dwarves, then 2 wounds are wasted.

It does specifically say unsaved.

"When the monster suffers an unsaved wound, roll a D6." P 73 IOB RB.