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I play Eldar at the moment, but I would like to start a fantasy army aswell. I've had a good look around at all the army's, and played in my local shop with a few diffierent races. Chaos is the one for me I think, as I like the fig's, history, art work,...... well just about everything about Chaos.
I got the army book, and after have a goog read, and a few more games with the store mixed Chaos army, I've gone for playing an all Tzeentch army, but the guys at my store have all try'd to put me off using the army. They all telling me that I should go for Slaanesh, or Nurgle. As Tzeentch is to costly, and that for the chaos power that is all about magic, his spells are't that great.
I need help here you guy's!!! I want to stick with Tzeecth, as nobody I know use's this army. I plan to start with a force for 1500 pts battles or so. So what do you guy's think?
Tzeentch?, or no?!!!!
Sure .. tzeentch sounds good. Expensive characters but good at magic.
You playing mortals or daemons?
as someone who has tried all 5 marks for a mortal army i must say tzeentch is my favorite. they does have a few spells that are iffy (red fire comes to mind the most) but there are also a few that can be devastating.
Nurgle i really dislike because u are generally given fear to a unit of 12 warriors or 5 knights and is fairly expensive as well.
Slaanesh has some good character combos and some alright magic as well as a very cheap mark.
undivided is well... undivided and u can do what ever u want with it.
lastly is Khorne which is no magic and all hack and slash.
the biggest reason i love tzeentch is the amount of power dice u can muster, combined with items like the staff of tzeentch cripples the enemy to the point where u can just come and mop up the rest with a few units of warriors/chariots/knights and marauders.
if ur not playing mortal then im not really sure what to tell u as i have really only used nurgle and tzeentch deamons and use only beast herds from BoC
I dont play fantasy yet i know alot about it from a friend though and i have a 40k Chaos army. Id say that Tzeentch or Slaanesh would be the best. Nurgle is a deffinately no. they arent that good and their just plain ugly and disgusting. Khorne would have to be the 3rd choice then maybe undivided. but not nurgle theirs a reason his stuff isnt as expensive. its worse, at least in my opinion. i would defianately go for Tzeentch because they have great spells and his troops tend to be pretty tough. thats what i think from what my friend tells me and what i know about 40k Chaos.
"A souls screams are merely their cries of thanks to the Chaos
"Horus was weak. Horus was a fool. He had the whole galaxy within his grasp and he let it slip away!" -Abbadon The Despoiler
The Kroot: You are what you eat.
Tyranids: YOU are what WE eat.
I'm a dedicated Tzeentch player... the died-in-the-wool sort of idiot who decides on his army based on the fluff and tries not to regret it. For the first long while, I was lucky to win a third of my games...
Tzeentch is hard to use well, and it really does require a lot more subtle tactics than the other options... after all, it is the most vulnerable to psychology. (Khorne is frenzied, Nurgle ignores fear, saanesh ignores everything and undivided gets rerolls... we get... Ld8 )
Recently, things have been giong quite well, including my siege game today... see, my mistake was trying to swim upstream against the current of common wisdom. I tried to half-Tzeentch it... Chaos Undivided with a Tzeentch sorcerer or two. That doesn't really work.
On the surface, Tzeentch's spell list is not as good as some of the other options out there. That's what pissed me off for the first few months, then I started noticing something. Every single game, no matter how badly I got beat, my disc rider was a key factor. When you combine the excellent mobility of Tzeentch Discs with his blasty spell list, you wind up in a very happy place:
Red Fire - yes, I know, D6 Strength sucks when Slaanesh gets S6 every time. But does he have a 30" range? Can he fly 15" in a turn, remain out of sight behind an enemy unit and still be able to target most units on the board?
Orange Fire - A freaking God. Your Tzeentch Lord is not as rough in close combat as the other 4 types, because of his psychology, but he is still rougher than most anyone else, and he's more mobile! I missed this the first few times, but not only does Orange Fire allow you to reroll Hits, wounds and armour, but it allows you to reroll wards. One of my favourite things to do against unwary enemies is to stand out there in plain view with the orange going and eat up the shots with the Gaze of the Gods or Golden Eye. Quick stat. A hit from a great cannon will wound the disc rider 1 out of 32 times. An Empire Handgunner will wound the guy on the disc 1 out of 364 shots at close range.
Yellow Fire - Next to useless for the guy on the disc, but a great boon for your spellcasting battle standard bearer. You give a whole unit a ward save fo the same casting cost as either Buboes or Throes.
Green and Indigo Fire - Suck against armoured troops, but against the right targets, brutal. I zapped a unit of 20 skinks once with the indigo fire and made 11 charging horrors (you're looking for about 10). One spell, one unit, and I gain a unit. Similarly, if you choose your targets for Green Fire (anyone with a great weapon), you'll find a lot of love.
BLUE FIRE - The best, IMHO. What other spell can dish out S7 hits? No really, I'd like to know. I too have had my fair share of Strength 2 shots, but the truth is, you can't always shoot for the averages. Sometimes you have to swing for the fences. Your opponent needs to decide to counter the spell well before he know how deadly it will be. Sure, it could be 3 Strength 2 shots, but it could easily be 9 strength 6. Can he really take that chance? I love shooting this one off first in the early turns (to get him used to o****ering it) and then late in the later turns (so he's holding dice to counter it later).
Violet Fire. Yeah, it sucks. Badly. A perfect example of the half-court shot, all-or-nothing idea. I never take it, unless I'm riding a disc and I've already dropped yellow fire for red.
That having been said, I popped a skink priest today on irresistable force... you end up casting some crazy things when you have 13 power dice.
I know, I'm rambling. But it's a symptom of my late-round epiphany...Tzeentch is great, if you give him a chance. The answer is discs, discs, discs!
Thanks for the tips guys!! I'll go aheah and start up my army ASAP!. I'am not gonna use daemons, just big guys with bigger spells n swords! I've use'd daemons before in some of the shop battle's I've played, n there far to unstable for me! They just don't last as long as you would think they should!
The tips on magic use will realy help me out, what about chaos spawn?! I have'nt played with these monsters, but they look pretty good to me.
version9 has said pretty much everything that needed to be said about Tzeentch magic, although if you really want some spells that are a little more reliable, you could always take along an Undivided sorcerer with a Spell familiar and the Lore of Fire! The Tzeentch forces generate the power, and the Sorcerer incinerates things with it!
On the subject of Spawn, yes they're fine, but don't bother taking the Tzeentch flame breath upgrade. It sucks, big time. Here's why: For the flame breath attack to do any real damage, the situation must meet certain criteria; the target must be of low toughness and have little or no armour (i.e. not dwarfs or knights!), be a large block of troops and be at just the right range to get maximum coverage from the flame template. This doesn’t happen often anyway and usually only once a game before the Spawn gets into combat and either stays there or dies. It's so crap it even allows armour saves! A dwarf flame cannon doesn't allow saves, so why does this flame attack allow them?!
In short, a 'regular' spawn is fine.
Oh, and apart from the Screamers (which are brilliant, and possibly an Exalted Daemon if you've got points to spare), don't bother using any of the other Tzeentch daemons either. They suck too. You can get loads of cool support troops from the Beasts book!
"Peace, through superior firepower."
What about horrors and flamers of tzeentch? What are your tactics with them and are they worth their points?
Also, if you have a totally undivided army, is tzeentch the best mark to give your mage(s)?
Horrors and Flamers have been completely nerfed in this edition, they are two of the most expensive lesser daemons yet they, the Horrors particularly, have a stat line equivalent to a one armed baby chimp. Okay they have spells and a shooting attack respectively, but Horror spells rarely achieve anything as their power is based on their numbers (which is never many because they're so expensive!) and the Flamer shooting attack is so short ranged, random and weak that for each Horror unit, you'd need to take all 4 of them (100 points!) to have any real effect.
The only reason you'd ever need any Horror models is just in case you manage to do any damage with the Indigo Fire spell. Otherwise, forget it.
As to you other question, you can't give the mark of Tzeentch to sorcerers, only to chaos champions (Aspiring and Exalted). If you did want an Undivided army full of Tzeentch champions, you'd also need a unit with the mark of Tzeentch for each champion you had. So you might as well just use a full Tzeentch army anyway!
"Peace, through superior firepower."
Fully agree with Tzeentch Lord...
the best tactic for the Changer's daemons is to not buy them... and there's no reason to go tzeentch unless you're going to GO Tzeentch all the way...