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Are small units of Mauraders with flails efective as a flanking unit. Or should the unit size be 16+ and work as a main fighting unit.
It really depends on who you're playing. I frequently play against Beasts of Chaos and Dark Elves. I've found that since both core units of BOC and DE are faster than marauders it's much more difficult to flank them with marauders. However if you're playing other races it may be easier. Strategy plays a huge role. If you're playing against a good opponent he'll rarely expose his flanks long enough for you to hit him with marauders. So against opponents with fast units its better to take the marauders as a unit of 16+ and i think it is very rare that they are taken in less than 16.. but if you think you can pull it off go for it.
Death draws near.
well the thing with muaraders is that chaos rarly outnumbers enough to flank, Now murader horsmen with flails flank awsome! Fast hit hard and manuverable as hell, those are great. Muraders with flails should flank in a muarder army, with two or three units of core muarders, and two units of 10 muarders with flails, no standards, or champoins.<p>
ok, try it out for yourself then see how it feels.
For 105 pts you get a unit of 15 marauders with flail musician and champion. Not bad if thier role is to support chaos warriors. But as you might know, you can have too many units of warriors in a chaos army, so I like my units to be fairly independent.
16 with light armour, shields flails is 143 pts, still fairly cheapas 4 ranks and can come crashing in with S5, or brace for impact with a 4+ save.
I prefer great weapons instead of the flails. When charging it's the same, plus that the +2S lasts longer than one turn of combat. When being charged I don't expect them so survive anyway.
Plus that the flail-models sucks bigtime IMHO.
the problem is that they wont survive in combat with anything but shields, so great wepons or flails they surve the same purpose, its just flails are cheeper.
Actually, if you don't mind going heavy on the maraiuders, I think you can
usefully use both. You can have a big unit (or 2) with shields for
ranks/outnumber and some survivability, and a couple of small units
(10-15 strong) with flails or great weapons for flank charges.
I think this can provide useful support to the heavy hitters in the
chaos army (chariots, warriors, knights, etc) .
yea i agree with spon's point. however, i think that the main purpose of flanking is to boost your CR + cause a panic check. for much much cheaper points you can use 5 warhounds to do this and they are much better at it (speed). you wont get the wounds that the marauders would, but depending on the target it probably would be overkill anyway.
consider taking a blocks of armored up marauders WITH flails and 5 hounds at their sides. perhaps toss in a unit of 10-15 great weapons to assist the everlasting warriors where you have the time to move them into flanks.
Last edited by Geisticon; August 6th, 2006 at 05:34.
In my experience, marauder infantry with flails or great weapons suck a$$, big time. Marauder infantry is only effective when bought in big units (20+) and armoured up to the max (light armour, shields, hand weapons). With a Hero they then work brilliantly as an anvil unit. Flanking maneuvers should only be performed by units that are, obviously, highly maneuverable. Like Warhounds, horsemen or a beast herd.
You don't even need to give the horsemen flails. Spears and shields will do. That way they'll still get a strength bonus on the charge, but they'll also have a slightly better armour save. This is arguably better than flails and a 6+ save, since the horsemen aren't in the enemy's flank/rear to cause damage, they're there to strip away his rank bonus and claim the +1/+2 for a flank/rear charge.
For these reasons, and the fact that they're fast cavalry, marauder horsemen are probably the best unit for this job, although they are the most expensive out of the three (but then you get what you pay for...).
"Peace, through superior firepower."
Gotta watch out for this against opponents with multiple attacks/2hand weapons/frenzy etc. The warhound will often get entirely wiped, not do any damage, and provide a net negative to combat resolution. And against frenzied opponents, they don't even provoke a panic check for flanking. Useful against weakish opponents, but more often than not they are worthless as flankers against anything that chaos would have any trouble with... maybe marauders vs. empire troops or something would be a good use of them.Originally Posted by Geisticon
In my experience the hounds are all dead by CC anyway, as they were screens.
I agree with Tzeentch Lord that the Fast-Cav are the best flanking option, and my marauders with flails always get killed by opposing fast cav if they are supposed to flank anyway.