How Would You Beat This (part I) - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Rex
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    How Would You Beat This (part I)

    Alright. I thought this might be a good idea - I put out a simple armylist of mine and you guys find out ways to defeat it in an effective way. This way, I learn some of the army's weaknesess, and you know what to do if you ever have to facing something similar.

    I will only post chaos armies in here, but feel free to throw anything you got at it (not only chaos). Or challenge it with your own perhaps .. :yes:. All lists posted are lists I'm using quite frequently. Anyway, here's the amy:

    Barbarian Horde - Marauder Themed HoC (slaanesh) - 1000 pts

    Exalted Daemon (lvl 1 wizard, slaanesh)
    Chaos Sorcerer (lvl 1 wizard, slaanesh)

    24 Marauders (greatweapons)
    16 Marauders (handweapon, shield)

    5 Horsemen (spears)
    12 Warhounds
    1 Chariot

    What opponents usually have problems with here are, of course, the terror-causing daemon, who flies around casting d6 S6 spells. The same goes for the sorcerer. The list if very fast, and I usually set the pace of the game and decide when and where combat erupts. Enough infantry to hold up horde-armies at 1000 pts.

    Wins: 6 Losses: 0 Draws: 0


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Captain Snowball's Avatar
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    1000 points...hmmmmm,

    If you faced an army planned specifically to beat this one then you would be in trouble.....

    Particularly a really shooty army.

    Lets think,
    Dwarves
    - 40-50 thunderers + whatever

    Empire
    - 40-50 handgunners +whatever

    Elves (of all denominations)
    - 40-50 archers + whatever

    Get the idea??
    A massed shooty army would spell certain doom for your marauder models.......then the daemon will be outnumbered and shot to pieces.....though this is only one way to do it, i'm am sure there are others

    Actually, what would you do against a high leadership army like elves against which your maruaders would break.....or cold-blooded lizardmen who almost never fail leadership checks??

    Regards

  4. #3
    Rex
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    I suppose I have to defend myself, then. :rolleyes: Opponents have tried some of those things already (although not THAT severe). Here it goes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Snowball
    Dwarves
    - 40-50 thunderers + whatever
    Ok. This shouldn't be such a problem, since only like 20 of them would be able to shoot me. Only skaven can put out a real shooting theat, since they're single models (ratling guns, flamers ..). My terror won't do as much as it's supposed to, but I expect at least one of the units to fail the test (I've played dwarves alot recently).

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Snowball
    Empire
    - 40-50 handgunners +whatever
    Pretty much as the above, except for the fact that half their army will flee from terror instead of only one in case of the dwarves. They're also easier to beat in cc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Snowball
    Elves (of all denominations)
    - 40-50 archers + whatever
    I havn't played elves very much, and expect them to do less damage than dwarf handgunners in shooting. A RBT would be much worse IMO, but relying on shooting when playing elves isn't the safest way to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Snowball
    Get the idea??
    A massed shooty army would spell certain doom for your marauder models.......then the daemon will be outnumbered and shot to pieces.....though this is only one way to do it, i'm am sure there are others
    I'm not concerned of whether the daemon is outnumbered or not - he's not supposed to go into combat. Since starting using him, he's only been in combat twice - once against two crewmen and once he charged a giant with only one wound left.

    As I mentioned it's hard to get much out of an army build entirely around infantry-shooting, since they're blocking each other (you usually only have one hill). A refused flank would kill him off in an instant.

    The high leadership armies could prove a challenge though, since I rely on a few missed tests each battle. Hacking your way through saurus isn't the best way to win, but I'll be controlling the flanks at least! Skinks are easily overrun (or scared off).

    If I were to go shooting against myself I'd go for 20 gunners/archers/crossbows and then build a solid leadership to tackle the daemon. Or go SAD of course (I've faced one so far and won .. barely). :yes:

    Comments?

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    Senior Member Orkbert's Avatar
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    And leaving both chars as lvl1 sorcerers is quite a gambling, too:
    1: they can only cast with a maximum of two dice, which for a 6+ spell means about a quarter of all casting attemps fail without even mentioning dispel pssibilities
    2: with the limited range, unless the sorceror is mounted and buzzing around with the horsemen (or the warhounds) ther will be only the demon casting spells in the first 2-3 rounds (depending on how much your opponent advances)
    3: If your opponent field two spellcasters himself, he will have the same amount of dispel dice as you have casting dice. Combined with the possible existence of dispel scrolls and the already mentioned risk of failed casting, you might not succeed with any casting (not even to mention a dwarven runesmith with the master rune of balance :cry: :cry: )

  6. #5
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    I think i'd use a lot of skinks and try to whitle down the small fast units as much as i could. Of course i'd also use my beloved jungle swarms to hold up one of the infantry blocks.

    I'd take a unit of slalmanders as well to try and kill one of those small units.

    Finally i'd take a couple of small(ish) saurus units for some extra hitty.

    If i were my dwarfs i'd take a few bolt throwers for sure. A couple of units of basic warriors and some thunderers would probably see me reach 1k points

    Ciao

    Stonehambey

  7. #6
    Rex
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orkbert
    And leaving both chars as lvl1 sorcerers is quite a gambling, too:
    1: they can only cast with a maximum of two dice, which for a 6+ spell means about a quarter of all casting attemps fail without even mentioning dispel pssibilities
    Two dice at 6+ is enough really. To be honest I havn't failed one yet .. and as for dispell dice - I get one more than if using only 1 lvl 2 wizard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orkbert
    2: with the limited range, unless the sorceror is mounted and buzzing around with the horsemen (or the warhounds) ther will be only the demon casting spells in the first 2-3 rounds (depending on how much your opponent advances)
    As you said, the daemon starts right away. The sorcerer usually gets along in the second round, unless the enemy really holds back. I might consider mounting him .. :shifty:

    Quote Originally Posted by Orkbert
    3: If your opponent field two spellcasters himself, he will have the same amount of dispel dice as you have casting dice.
    This is - and I'm well aware of it - my biggest weakness so far. It's only a 1000 pts yet, so I can't do much about it without ruining the theme. I've faced skaven fielding two wizards so far .. but one of them ran off quite early, which left me in magic supremacy.

    Still .. got points. If you don't buckle up for magic, you're gonna get beated down by it badly.

    I think the lizardman variant Stonehambey put out would get interesting. A balanced army, which adds more fun to it (unlike the 50-thunderer-dwarf-army).

    I think the list I'm using i fairly balanced to, and I don't have any intentions on making it 'super-good'. Instead I'm sticking to the theme I've built up around it. Hope everyone else also thinks so .. :rolleyes:
    Last edited by Sammy the Squib; August 11th, 2006 at 15:14.

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    Huge Member Jimmy_boy's Avatar
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    hmmmmm, well I think that an undead army would do very well against this set up. A couple of spellcasters themselves, with blocks of fear causing, unbreakable, resurectable troops you're gonna have trouble bringing them down. If I were to tool up against it, I think Vampire Counts would do better than the khemri, with some spirit hosts perhaps (only your characters can touch them after all). I don't think the marauders could hold out long enough before they autobreak from them and possibly get mown down.

    Also brettonians. Against a well set up Bret army (i don't play brets so I couldn't give you a list) I don't think this list would have much of a chance.

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    Alright I have a feeling my High Elves could deal with this list fairly easily. That being said, you do have a pretty solid list. It's just that the difference in the speed of your units is staggaring.

    Your static combat resolution is coming from 2 units of marauders who are much slower than the rest of your army. I would deploy about halfway back in my zone in a defensive shooting formation. I would probably include 1 RBT, 10 archers, an eagle, 2 chariots, and then some infantry. For leaders I'd probably go with 2 lvl 2 mages, or 1 lvl 2 and a commander.

    Your exalted daemon is the only thing I can see myself struggling with. If I knew ahead of time that I would be playing against this list, a commander with the auto-wounding sword could probably take him down np. If a random matchup though, I would focus magic on him. The rest of your army is somewhat vulnerable to shooting. The horsies and warhounds will drop like flies to archers and RBTs. The chariot can be dealt with by my own chariots (out-charging and whatnot). From there on in it's just 2 units of marauders to deal with.

    Basically it comes down to whether or not I'm able to get rid of your daemon.
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  10. #9
    Son of LO Plague_00's Avatar
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    i don't think much of your list no offence but personally i would beat you like a drum in cc, marauders were never meant as a mainstay unit they are cheap and expendable screen for chaos warriors OR a flanking force any dedicated cc unit will tear em to shreds

    horsmen and warhounds are the standard flankers but in your army you are gonna have to use em as a screen thus negating a magority of their strengths

    chariots are nice but with only one it's chances of surviving to do some real damage is cut back dramatically


    drop the daemon c'mon it's 1000 points and he is like 300+ on his own and besides he's a cc character having somthing that costs that much flying around attempting to cast (key word 'attempting' an army with 2 mages r even 1 lv2 is gonna totally kill any chance he has of casting that spell!) is a gross waste of points and a heroe slot

    if ya get rid of the daemon then use the points to get a second true mage and upgrade them both to level 2 and left over should go into 3rd marauder unit if you wish to keep the theme also knock some numbers of the really big one to even up all 3

    oh and ya forgot to add the mark of slaanesh on your chariot in the listing cus if it dosn't have it then the list is illegal anyway

    lastly try to scrounge up a second chariot
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  11. #10
    Senior Member Captain Snowball's Avatar
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    I am also pretty sure my DE all comers list would make mincemeat of you......

    One lvl 2 sorcerer with extra dispell and power dice, already a match magically for you
    Another lvl 2 sorcerer with a nasty bound magic spell (heard of doombolt?)

    My mainstay units consist of a unit of corsairs and 10 crossbowmen in a line.
    Then i have a Repeater bolt thrower (which will hurt the daemon even), a unit of cold one knights and a noble with great weapon sitting in his very own chariot.

    Your army seems to rely on the daemon prince doing his thing or possibly outnumbering an opponent.....not entirely reliable.

    Also, on the shooting front, my own dwarven army consists of 3 runesmiths with a rune of balance on one.....already 8 dispell + a full 20 thunderers in two lines of ten, two cannons and two organ guns with a back up unit of longbeards or ironbreakers......so, this is proof that people really do field nasty, REALLY shooty armies....probably slightly cheesy but it is ammusing!!

    Regards

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