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With the new rules, wizards will only be able to use the power dice they generate, plus those from the base dice, forcing players to run less magic. With these intentions will Tzeentch players conquer the world of warhammer? Each unit that is able to take the mark of tzeentch will add an extra power dice to the pool. Plus the great power familiar item which also adds an additional power/dispel dice to the pool. With all these extra dice that wizards can now use to cast, besides the ones the generate, wouldnt that mean that Tzeentch armies will devestate all armies with their magic?
I've been thinking about this subject for quite a while now, and to me it seems like Tzeentch will be broken. What's your opinions?
I don't quite see how.
The magic rules aren't changed a huge amount, and you can only cast 1 of each power...and if you're a level 2 sorcerer, you've only got a choice of 2, which will often leave something redundant.
What good psychic powers have they got? Sod's law states that if you're fighting goblins, you get Green Fire, and if you're fighting lots of knights, you get Indigo Fire. I think ultimately the Tzeentch psychic powers are good, but to be able to obliterate an army, the player must have a very large number of sorcerers.
Plus you've got to take into account the miscast table. It's pretty harsh, really...
No, Tzeentch will be nerfed, the miscast table is just so deadly. Since all of our characters must be wizards, we have more chance than anyone of losing at least one character per game to the miscast table, and considering their extortionate points cost, that will be a huge blow to the effectiveness of the army. Particularly if it happens early on in a game. I don't think a slightly larger pool of free power dice is that much of a benefit though.
Since magic is being nerfed on a general level anyway, I suspect many armies won't bother with wizards at all (except Tzeentch players who have no choice). As such, armies may take extra anti-magic measures instead (Lizardman Tepok, scroll caddies...), especially if they know they'll be facing magic based armies like Tzeentch, Vampires or Tomb Kings. Otherwise they'll just go all combat.
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I'm a bit mixed on the issue. Certainly Tzeentch gains a slight boost over the other armies in the sense that they have more casting dice available to whoever wants to use them. However as Tzeentch lord said, they will also be losing a large chunk of points in the event of a miscast. Tzeentch armies and Vampire armies that lose a potent melee character because he tried to cast a spell will be hurting bad for the rest of the game.
On the plus side, I believe the Staff of Change will become absolutely manditory for lords, as anything which can avoid a miscast will be wonderful news.
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As if that wasn't the case by now.Originally Posted by Fat_Badger
Seriously now. I think Tzeentch would be in a major disadvantage, mainly because of the 400pts character blowing himself up!
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I would suggest that if any magical beings were really going to benefit, it would be the Slaan, more specifically the 2nd generation ones. No miscasts, and the ability to chuck in an extra dice to every spell.
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I now see where that would be at a disadvantage, but there are still casters that dont need any dice, such as horrors which can still over-power other armies who just run scroll caddies and that other crap to stop magic. Now that warhammer players will be running much more troops, the indigo fire of change spell will be much more deadly, or the horrors bound spell:uncontrollable mutation. And when, if any, the enemy units turn into horrors, thats just yet another horror unit thats able to cast spells now. Tzeentch, though now being a risk due to the miscast, will still over power in the magic phase.
At least I think so. This is because every game i play i get about 16-18 power dice and still manage to keep about 3 units (1 beast herd, 2 warriors, 2 chariots, and 1 horror sqaud, w/ characters in a 2000 pt game). I dont know...maybe i'm still ever-reacting.
The Chaos Lords of Tzentch will be a tricky thing these days.
The Staff will be a must.
the biggest advantage that they will have is that people are going to tone down magic defence. So they will be getting more spells through than before.
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Well if anything, it will force Tzeench players to rely less on poowning (that's right, poowning!) opponents with shear magic, and face the beast. It will not compel players to field 12-16 man units and a truckload of chariots. You'll see 20 man units now, and more marauders and non-marked units pop out on armylists for more flexibility.
Sure magic will remain an important part of a tzeench complete breakfast, but at least we'll see more balanced lists with a greater variaty of units. I for one will gladly start a Tzeench beast army next ed, I think that it will make a nice tactical challenge, and be deadly with 10 man beast heards catching fleeing troops from your magic and caracters.
I think you're deluding yourself into assuming that Indigo fire and Horrors are actually effective in the first place! Horrors are possibly the worst daemon in the game and their spells are next to useless, especially when they are bound spells (which usually get dispelled) and the power is based on half their unit strength (and who takes more than 12-14 Horrors?!)Originally Posted by Kingkobra7221
Indigo fire is only of any real use when you've got hordes of weak troops like goblins or skaven. Otherwise you'll be lucky to cause even a wound with it. This is why generally it's swapped out for Red Fire, which at least has the potential to be reasonably powerful. Even so, it does have it's uses, but I don't think armies will be fielding many more troops than they do now, so it won't make it that much better. Deciding not to take a wizard won't save you that many points! (Most players will probably spend points saved on more Heroes instead anyway...)
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