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Okay, I am up against a Skaven army fairly soon, and need your assistance. I've played them on several occassions with an OnG army (horde army vs. horde army), and did fairly well (most were draws with a couple wins and losses).
But, now that I am playing with a Khorne army I have far less models to battle with. I am expecting the player to go numbers/shooting heavy (magic, in my mind, would probably not play a big part as I will have lots o' dispel dice; plus, most opponents in my league have the same mind-set).
This is what I have to work with (BTW, we are playing a 2250pt battle):
2 - Characters on foot or mounted
3 - Warrior Units (16 models each), Full Command
1 - Unit with Add. HW and Shields
2 - Units with HW & Shield
2 - Maurader Units (16 models each), Full Command
1 - Unit with Flails, Light Armour & Shield
1 - Unit with GW, Light Armour & Shield
2 - Knight Units (5 models each), Full Command
2 - Marauder Horsemen Units (6 models each), Full Command
3 - Chariots
1 - Hellcannon
10 - Furies
5 - Flesh Hounds
10 - Warhounds
Of all this, which units would be most effective against a numbers/shooting heavy Skaven army, and how would you deploy them?!
The chariots definately. Then big blocks of infantry (your choice) back up with knights and warhounds.
Dunno about the hellcannon ..
I don't know the skaven list real well, but here's my take:Originally Posted by FGutierrez777
Use the hellcannon, 2 units of 5 warhounds, 6 furies, 0 chariots, and some infantry and cavalry, 1 unit 20 warriors, 2 units 16 marauders, and some cavalry for flanking (MH or KoC, whichever). DO NOT USE CHOSEN ANYTHING, the skaven will shoot them too easily, and your normal guys are more than good enough for skaven anyway.
I think chariots are a bad idea, because i think the warp-cannon is S7+. So they'll probably use 2, which will destroy your chariots real quick. If I'm wrong about the strength, then the chariots would be a good idea, cause they die slow to other shooting.
Don't use too many marked units, cause a canny skaven player will have them chase skavenslaves all battle, and you'll never hit anything expensive. Also Khorne is expensive, which means you have less stuff, and you'll need numbers to weather the shooting storm.
Hellcannon sits by itself on a flank, and hopes to panic the entire enemy army (make sure it gets a real ward save, cause warp-shooting is magical). These are great against gunlines, in my experience. Furies attack whatever war machines they can find. the rest of the stuff advances, cheaper stuff screening the expensive stuff, and smash everything they have in combat.
If you were to expand on your options, I think a few beast herds would do marvels for you. They'll screen everything much easier than a lot of units of hounds, and panic slower due to larger numbers.
Last edited by kooshlord; August 23rd, 2006 at 18:38.
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The warplightning cannon's strenght is randomly determined by an artillery dice (2-10). This leaves only 2 options (8 or 10 .. or 5+) to autobreak the chariots. I think this is a fair deal for a fastmoving deathdealer. Especially against skaven, who you need to reach as fast as possible. And unless he knows about your chariots, I doubt he'll take 2 cannons (they usually misfires anyway :w00tOriginally Posted by kooshlordThis is very true and you should really consider this. Both fast and skirmish, the only threat they face is magic (which skaven excells at) and perhaps stormvermin.Originally Posted by kooshlord
Too bad you don't have them on your list ..
Thanks Rex for clarifying the warpfire cannon rules.
The warpfire jezzails (sp?) are S6 armor piercing, I believe, so they'll chew through armor units pretty fast.
What about the ratling guns and warpfire throwers? Do the ratling guns roll to hit? Are skirmishers any use against them? I just remembered about them and wonder if beastherds are any better against ratling guns than anything else. The large numbers might help you out...
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Ratling guns have really bizarre firing rules. If I remember they get to roll dice for # of shots up to a maximum of 6 (methinks) and misfire if they roll doubles. So they can be devastating, but only if he's lucky.
Also, Hellcannon should be perfect against Skaven. The hits are nice, Terror is nicer.
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oiy, skaven... i know them too well. the guy at the shop playes a uber SAD army cheese from hell, two cannons, 4 ratling guns, 3 warpfire, many jazels, 12 powerdice. and i still do fairly good against him. acouple things to remeber,
Ratling guns: the rat player can roll up to six dice to ditermine the amount of shotts, up to six dice, thing is if he rolls a double it misfires, but you can almot expect about 4-8 automatic hit S4 hits from them without a misfire (this is the most reliable weapon of skaven, dont expect a misfire unless he pushes his luck)
Warpfire throwers: they use the flame template and then roll half of the skatter dice to see how far it 'floats'. misfire is 1in 6 like usual. problem is, if the unit is hit by this it causes a panic test, so it can be problem for screening units (warhounds and beasts). and at no armor saves it can hurt knights.
warp cannons: in my oppinion, the biggest pain in the ass from skaven, they can either desimate you, or just annoy you, they shoot through terrain so dont think that hiding units in trees, buildings, or anything else will help you (found this out the hard way). variable S (2-10) with a chance for misfire, goes 8D6 (i think and hits every unit in its way, so can do ALOT of hits. upside is they auto flee from a charge, furies are a godsend in this situation.
Bell tower: more then anything this is just annoying, gives los for the sorcerrer. the bells power is rather week imo.
Sorcerrers: more annoying then the weapons i think. skaven armys can get a ton of powerdice to throw around, and they will take at least 4 sorcerrers, so if one or two blow their heads up it doesnt matter. some of their spells can be realy powerful (plague) i havnt found a good way around this.
my suggestion is terror causing units, chariots, and of course the hellcannon (fight cheese with cheese)
Man .. I've faced SADs but that is SICK!! You'll need a flying army of terror-causing monsters immune to magic to stand a chance. :rolleyes: No, but seriously .. that's sick.Originally Posted by SilvanestI agree. Still, "reliable" means 1/6 chance of misfiring if using 2 dice (which they always do). So you can expect around 7 hits each round.Originally Posted by SilvanestIndeed they are. Especially the warlock engineers! 2d6 S5 hits each round from that cheap little rat! You need to get rid of those as soon as possible.Originally Posted by SilvanestWhat do you expect from rats .. they loooove cheese! No but I think it's fairly possible to beat him with a balanced force. And if you do .. you can bully him all week because we lost with such a cheesy army! :w00t:Originally Posted by Silvanest
Hmmmm, yes the skavens...
Alrighty, Jezzails will most likely be your biggest fear here. S6 armor piercing magical shots with rediculous range, and 360 LoS. They are best dealt with with panic. If you do choose to take the hellcannon, you can probably get them to bail off the board nice and early. Other than that, a charge with fear-causing units will do nicely.
Playing Khorne against skaven will be harder than other marks. My Slaaneshi army does very well against skaven, as my magic can target ratling teams and independent characters. You will have to rely on deployment and terrain. Use hounds as sacrificial units to throw in the way of his gun teams, or simply charge them. Your main concern in this matchup should be his firepower, as even the most powerful skaven melee unit will be nothing compared to Khorne.
Don't take any deamons aside from furies. All skaven ranged weapons count as magical, and so will cut down fleshhounds and bloodletters like flies. I would advise a few things:
-take lots of expendable units
-take multi-wound creatures, (chaos ogres, Dragon Ogres, Trolls, etc)
Expendable units, (especially wolves) will work wonders here. If you can get access to more than 10, take them. I'd recommend like 4 units of 5, and throw them full speed at your opponent. Make it clear on turn 1 that if he does not kill them, they will be charging his cannon/wizard/guns on turn 2. This will hopefully allow your real units to avoid getting shot.
Multi-wound creatures perform very well against skaven. They are fast, and don't suffer nearly as much from jezzails. A chosen knight will go down to a jezzail hit while an Ogre will merely take a wound.
Don't take your knights as chosen. The benefits you get are mostly wasted on weak skaven troops.
Chariots can be very effective as fire magnets. put them in locations so that your opponent could fire the cannon at it for a chance to auto-pop it, but in doing so would not hit any other targets. The only downside to chariots is that they are somewhat slow, and you will want to get to your opponent as fast as possible.
Mainly your plan should be about dodging fire, and closing into combat asap. If he shows up lacking ranged weapons, the game will be yours no problem. Let us know how you do.
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oh, i did forget. while this wont help you with this battle, in the next rule book you can target charcters even within 5in of a unit.
This means that with magic you can start poping ratling guns, warpfire, and engs. it should make life easyer after the 9th