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Some freind's of me are starting WFB army's and I'm more then a little interested in starting one myself. I have looked on the army's and found that Hordes of Chaos or Dark Elves seems to be my deal.
Now I would like your help to get started (around 1k). I have got the codex and have read it but must confess I can't truly grasp everything (especially the heros). So what army would I like to play? Well more then can fit in my budget (economic and thereby point wise)... Lets make a wish list.
Thoughts on the gods: The models and blood drinking of Khorne is cool, the rules about magic bad and Khorne doesn't seem to complement the core troops at all but instead lifting their strength and lowering the weaknesses. Nurgle is just not what I want, bad looking and smelly, besides the daemons looks more like toads then cool bringers of death. Tzeentch got good rules about magic which I really like but I don't think the models are that cool (especially not the colors).
- Heros, heros and even more heros... well thats 3 isn't it?
- A core of Warriors
- Spells, its cool and at least something gets a range better then base-to-base
- Khorne (fluff and colors, not so much the rules)
- Some sort of daemon
- Gors and Ungors as support
- Not 100% mounts
- A Dragon! (but is clearly not doable in 1k)
I would like to have a CC Exalted Champion, a Sorcerer and a Daemonic hero but will have to choose between them, this have made me think on Tzeentch cause I could then gladly skip the sorc if both my heros already had those abilitys..
Thanks in advance for any help with getting me on army list track.
First off, I wanna tell you my own quick tale. I started with a Khorne oriented army, and got kinda sick of it because it was so mainstream(how on earth could of that happend?!?!*sarcastic*) but then i started to experiment with a dark blue look to the models, and the gave them a bronze touch and a small tint of silver and then back to blue once more, and they actually turned out pretty cool. I tried out Nurgle, and that little fear bit they do is so useful against undead, and also gobbos. Then, on to Slaanesh. I like Slaanesh the best, jsut because the essence it provides, but not much for troop choices. I now run an Undivided force, but it's filled with Tzeentch chariots and a small team of warriors. I think if you're at all like me, and have really no idea which one to choose, take an undivided general, anf comliment the army with just about anything you want. Sure, he wont get the lvl 4 sorceror benefits, or ability to cause fear, or the ability to diminish leadership, or even that juicy rage, but he does get to reroll failed psch and it opens so many more doors than a diety based lord would have.
now for your questions
1. Of course, heroes are just so amazing to use. I can't give you advice as to what to give yours, but just that if you do give him the right combat gear, he'll ahnialate even the most potent opponents, and if you give him the best sorceror gear, he'll terrorize opponents like none other.
2. For me, a little bit too expensive. At least consider including some marauders and maybe a chariot or two as their impact hits are invulnerable. Also, beastmen are a very good idea as well as maybe a few mounted horsemen just for shits and giggles.
3. If you really like spells, jump into those chaos powers. They're very potent, and would aid such a straightforward combat army in several ways more than one. And yes, they do provide a good aspect of range to start from.
4. Yes, fluff for Khorne is cool, and the colors are also, but the rules can get very boring and uninteresting. Between the Nurgle and Khorne debate, I would take nurgle over khorne every day, as your enemy doesnt neccesarily need to die to give you some victory points if you get the charge on them. Also, Slaanesh can be very useful for combat res, and also for any useless tests your enemy may need to take.
5. Exalted Daemons are a little too expensive for a 1000 point battle, but once you get going a little more, the diety specific daemons are so useful, I could sing verses of them and never have enough time for anything else.
6. Good idea, a lesson that I am just learning now.
7. Very very good idea, a lesson I am also learning now, but didnt take me quite as long to learn.
8. Dragons are cool, but I like the concept of a mammoth more ( a giant hairy elephant with barabrians chucking axes at their enemy and a sorceror who cause the thing to make cannonballs bounce off its hide harmlessly and still have time to shoot curses and spells down at very aware enemies below is a lot cooler, IMO, then some two headed lizard with a bad temper.)
One thing I must argue is that this toad, can take 12 deathly wounds before his diseases get better, and he dies of health.
Finnaly, Tzeentch is extremely point heavy on heroes, so be careful with using too many or it will be a daemon, and two sorcerors with two teams of 10 maruaders against over 300 gobbos very quickly.
hope this all helped, and congratulations on you being released from your shackles of mortality, and on your way to legend!
scratch the undead, typo. meant to say orks.
Your story sounds like something I will be able to recall in a year or so But now is now, undivided sounds good in 1k, partly cause it cost a lot with marks.
1. How many points is it ok to pay for your heros in 1k? (or in general) I have seen both 140-300 in the few 1k army lists I found here.
2. I'm not against throwing in some chariots and knights but 2 squads of warriors sounds nice to me. I'm not against marauders but I believe the beast men to fit better in a 1k army. Why? The ungors (the meatshields) are cheap like hell, They are skirmishers - more diffrences from the core.
5. Makes the beastmen even more needed to get that nice daemon feeling of the whole.
8. Mammoths? Where do I find them?
Well lets have a first start on a list now:
10 Warriors of Chaos 190 p
Full command and some equipment (not decided yet but added 2p/m in the cost)
10 Warriors of Chaos 190 p
Full command and some equipment (not decided yet but added 2p/m in the cost)
5 Knights 215 p
Beast herd 75 p
5 Gors w. standard and musician, 5 ungors with sheilds
This leaves me about 300 points for heros, which should be enough for two heros but not for a daemon. One champion and one sorcerer I guess would be best.
What you have there is a pretty good start, a little heavy on the elite infatry (warriors), but doable nonetheless. With this list, you could probably do better with just one Exalted Champ on foot and 2 units of 5 Warhounds. The thing about Chaos that you need to look out for is that you can really get tied up into the Heros, where in actuality, only a few are needed. At 1,000 pts, just one kick-ass Undivided Exalted with the Helm of Many Eyes and a Great Weapon will be all you need. The Hounds you will certainly need to help close up flanks and chase away your enemy's smaller units.
Good luck and have fun!
P.S. As you expand your force, you'll certainly want to get some Marauders and MArauder Horsemen. These units are essential for any diverse intimidating Chaos Horde.
While not a expert I use to play warhammer seveal years ago and have just got back into the game a few months ago. Things have changed so much I have to relearn how to play with the new rules.
1st and maybe most importantly- Unless you are takeing a Tzeentch army I would recommend waiting till you move up in points for warriors. Marauders will be able to fufill any task you wish the warriors to do. They have ws4 and are cheaper what this does for you is lets you hit on 4 with most core groups of troops out there which you will find out comes in very handy.The latter being obvious you can feild more. Equiping them with light armour and shields gives you a nice 4+ armour save in hth. And full command keeps them around even longer. Now me I like to drop a undivided hero in this unit and equiping him with helm of many eyes and a great weapon. You now have a unit with ld 8 3-4 str 7 attacks even if charged and unless your enemy specificly targets your champion you will get at least 2 ws 4 str3 attacks back at the enemy. So you figure what you kill 3-4 he/she kills maybe 2-3 a rerollable ld 8 your going to either win or hold. Now you have a nice juicy flank charge w/ a supporting unit. Which if you want could be a unit of warriors I would just personaly take 1 unit if any. If you do take a unit of warriors I would suggest giveing them halberds and sheilds. The halberds add some extra killing while the sheilds help in shooting. I would also make them 12 strong, extra attack and you can lose 2 with out effecting your rank bonus. This also helps when you expand which i comment on further down.
2nd- The beast heard is going to need to be bigger. Id say maybe 5-6 gors and 11 ungors w/ full command. Lets you take some hits in shooting and hth and not run away remember beast ld is 6 the foe-render helps this buy bumping it up to 7. I usually add a bray shaman to this unit. Shamans are 10 pts less than wizards and they are better fighters. With this unit you can safely go after shooting support units and If you add the shaman you have a 360 degree los so you shaman can add some support in a lot of different directions. (You have the 360 los either way but it benifits you even more with the shaman)
3rd- Since you wants some deamons may i suggest some furies. I have used them once in a unit of 6.It is less than a 100pts and it will take out a warmachine crew by turn 2. So now they are a mainstay in my army
4th- You know I was pretty close to Droping knights out of my army. But then two of them held out for a couple rounds against a unit of great swords. They proably would have broke em had it not been for a warrior priest casting a prayer makeing them unbreakable.
So I would recommend 4-5 of these bad boys. If you got the spare points standard bearer with standard of war is a nice addition.
Since you are looking to go undivided a couple nice spawns of slannesh would make pretty good tarpit units while the rest of your army plays catch up.
I also only have a 1k army but I am going to expand to 2k so things im looking at are Minoutars, Dragon Ogers, & Chosen warriorsw/halberds. You would be hard pressed to find a 2k army list without one of these units in it. Just some ideas as you expand. If you did go with a unit of warriors with halberds in your 1k now all you have to do is slap the chosen on them. The furies knights maurders spawn and beast herd should all transion nicely into a 2k army. You can slap the chosen lapel on the knights as well. So now you have upgraded two units with out any out of pocket cost to yourself. Your core will be good so all you have to do is figure what u want for the extra 2 special slots and you have a extra rare slot open too. You could also field your Deamon now if you choose.
Hope I didnt ramble to much and I hope this helps out.
Well, all these questions are pretty valid, and are a lot I asked myself when i first started, so lets start from the top
1. There is no median for how many points you *should* pay for yor leader, only what you can pay. I usually max out my general, and nless it's 2000, I dont tend to take another leader at all. I usually just spend the points on another unit of whatever seems good at the time, and go from there.
2. Sonds good to me, but just be careful with taking too many warriors. At 1000, if yo decide to give them a mark, I'd say only take one unit and take up the other slot with marauders. coenono is very right in his thinking that marauders are almost neccesary for a low point army, because yo'll be otnmbered like crazy if you don't. Also, the beastmen shouldn't be used as a meat shield. Use a unit of maruaders for that, and use the beastmen as scouts ahead of the army. It'll give you good field position, and good lines of defense tend to be your first choice for placement anyway.
5. yup :yes:
8. Dont worry about that for now, I'm busy making mine right now. When i'm finished, I'll send you a pic so you can see how it will trn out based off of a LOTR mamuk. Also, only usable in 2000+ point games(takes up 2 rare slots) heres the link though:
I have to say though, that this army list is very beatable. Almost everyone in the warhammer world learns how to win a battle against a list such as this. on open grond, yo will die. Against wood elves, you will die. Against dwarfen gun lines, you will die. Against Gobbos, you will die. I have said this before, and will say this again, fast attack, meat shields, low point cost maraders. The knights wil be the number one target for the entire time, and when they're gone, the warriors will fall swiftly. I'm at school right now, but when I get home, I'll post my 1000 point list to give you an idea. Not a bad list at all, but against certain enemies, it will be like Orks against Space Marine. Walk in the park for the Orks.