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Hey everyone... i've never played against vampire counts but my friend has recently made a new vamp counts army.
he's played a couple of my friends in 2k point games... apparently he somehow has like 10 + power dice... could you guys explain a little about vamp counts? like what to be worried about, what to crush quickly ect?
I usually run an undivided army with a kick ass lord
its a pretty unorthodox army, it usually consists of
1 lord kitted out with black maul, enchanted shield and gaze of gods on a steed
2 sorcerors on foot usually undivided different lores depending on who i play
10 khorne knights
5/10 marauder horsemen
20 full beast herd (12 gors) (8 ungors)
10 mounted daemonettes
sometimes 10 furies or 20 daemonettes on foot
sometimes i also include warriors
sometimes use a hell cannon if the battle calls for it :shifty:
Death draws near.
The basic idea of the VC army is use your cheapish, unbreakable, fear causing units to engage in combat. Then using special rare and hero choices to do damage and win the combat. And you have to remember, if you're outnumbered and you loose combat by 1, you run (with the notable exception of unbreakable units). The tactics come down to what kinda VC army are you going to be playing against. There's 5 blood lines and each one opens up a whole mess of different tactics.
I haven't seen all the different VC armies in action, but I've seen a very effective (you can read that as cheesy if choose) tactic ran with the Blood Dragon blood line. He fielded a whole mess of core units, marched them strait up the middle, and tied up the enemy. The effective part of his plan was, he had a super loaded unit of undead knights loaded with a Vamp Lord and 2 Necromancers. Why is this such a nice strat? He maneuvers to the flank of the enemy, smashes into the flank, the lord does crazy damage to the the unit, the mounted necros raise zombies on the flanks of the knight block, effectively shielding the lord unit from flank attacks, crazy amount of casting for resurrecting the lord unit. Very effective.
How do you beat the VC army? Kill the general and the heroes. Beyond that, we'll need to get some more advice. Hope this helps.
Your biggest enemy when fighting against a VC army are going to be the fact that everything causes fear, (almost) everything is unbreakable and his characters are incredibly strong, with VC characters being one of the only ones which can stand up to chaos characters.
For the fear aspect, keep low leadership models such as marauders near your general. They don't have the mark of undivided so if they fail their fear test, no re-rolls. I tend to field a Slaanesh army (not just against undead, all the time) so I don't have the problem of taking psychology tests, as pretty much my entire army is immune to psychology. Also be very careful not to be outmanouevered. You will be outnumbered, but try to keep your flanks protected and beat down his units in straight combat (zombies/skeletons vs. Marauders/warriors = no contest). Keep you stronger models to attack his general and/or necromancers. Without these an undead army is pretty pathetic.
I wouldn't bother with a hellcannon, since one of its best points (causing terror wherever it hits) is wasted on an undead army. It might be worth taking it for combat rather than for shooting though :shifty:
I don't know for certain, but I imagine daemons would be pretty useful against undead units. Yes they have instability, but they are also unbreakable and are likely to beat most undead units in straight combat. Just don't use them to attack his characters.
So Sayeth Jimmy boy
I'd recommend a big block of warriors of khorne with the banner of rage: You hit and kill a lot, so you are unlikely to lose combat. If you DO lose combat, you retain your frenzy, and thus your immunity to fear. So no autobreak! Keep a Lord or a couple nasty heroes with the unit and it should be pretty much able to hold its own against undead characters. And all that MoK will do nicely for your anti-magic.
As Jimmy-boy said, The hellcannon isn't great against undead.
You should probably go straight magic defense unless you plan to go full-out offense. Kit out bray-shamans, or sorcerers on Barded steed (2 S4 attacks and good armor) with dispel scrolls, don't bother paying for offense.
Characters of nurgle joined to unmarked units will create immunity to fear throughout your army, which can be very effective to negate the undead advantages.
Hope it helps!
Arena of Death Champion: Nexim of the Guldskullz Tribe. Fear my wrath!
If you want to design an army to take on vampire counts there are several ways.
1) go for the characters. Kill the magic users and disable his ability to make more skelletons. And of course kill his general and the army will crumble. The big problem with that is that the general is usually a vampire and pretty bad-ass. And a good player will not just give up his characters (which he can also heal). Some armies are good at this tactic though. Like High Elves. Charge and eagle into the unit and put the attacks on the necro and lose combat break, rally and do it again. Chaos is not so good at this.
2) The other option is to kill the whole unit with the vampire in it. That is very hard because a VC player will heal the unit and it will take forever. However there are ways to do it. However you need to create a list that can do it. Now I don't like lists for targetted armies but rather for all comers. Chaos has alot of options though. Knights and chariots and khorne kill like crazy.
A unit of 6 chosen knights of khorne will rip through skelletons like nothing. However will you kill 30 in one turn. Probably not. Also Khorne can be messed with with frenzy baiting.
Here is what I would do.
Take 3 exalted champions in chariots and a lord in a chariot and chosen knights and chosen warriors.
Now only charge when you can combine stuff. Keep the mark undivided. Now charge with 3 or 4 chariots into the generals unit. Make sure you get one in the flank as they take ranks. If you can also get the knights in even better. Just a concentrated attack on the generals unit. Give all the characters flails and they will easily kill 20 skelletons. Only place attacks on the skelletons if possible. Then the general will die allong with the rest of the unit due to masive combat res. It is a one shot deal but it will work.
thanks alot guys... i'll take everything into consideration when i play him.
i talked to another one of my friends who has played him before and he basically said kill the general and bring alot of dispell scrolls... the guy apparently uses the magic heavy blood line and sometimes uses a zombie dragon with a lord on it.... and he said he has some knights that are good wights or something... ill do my best against them
any ideas of how to kill it besides kitting out my lord?
Death draws near.
kitting out your lord:
As a main character killer (especially against a zombie dragon). I would go with a undivided lord on a steed with a shield. And for magic items a hell fire sword and helm of many eyes.
Put him in a unit of knights. (don't have to be chosen against a dragon but should be chosen against a vampire in a unit). Also give the unit a warbanner. Then when you get in combat with the vampire on a dragon. Issue a challange. You will strike firsts. Try and figure out who is the easiest to wound. The dragon or the vampire. Hit what ever you can wound easiest (probably the dragon) and you do and EXTRA D6 wounds per wound. The vampire should pop on combat res. Your general might die from the attacks back but personally I would always trade my chaos lord for a vampire. Your army will lose the ability to use his ld 9 and his army will start crumbling and he loses magic abilities.
If he is using a zombie dragon, then you are going to have problems. Those things are hard to hit in close combat, and while not quite as tough as a normal dragon, make up for it in other ways.
You need a unit that can lure it towards you then you can counter charge with something that it isn't going tp kill instantly. Marauder Horsemen may do this for you, but you will have to be careful.
As for Vampire Counts in general, if you have enough dispel dice, you will be fine. Your troops are tougher and unless you want to die, don't stand toe to toe with a vampire... Just keep their magic down and you should do alright, just watch out for dire wolf flank charges and Spirit Hosts.
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A common tactic for VC players is to raise small units to redirect your troops.
X=your warriors or knights
His guys force you to either accept a charge in the next round or go ahead and charge them, but once you charge, you're facing like this:
You'll almost certainly win combat against a few summoned zombies, but now your flank is exposed.
Summoning troops is also a great trick to use on frenzied troops to lead them where you want them to go.
Like Burnanation said, kill the general and down go the vampire counts. VC characters are notoriously hard to kill, especially considering they can heal themselves with Invocation of Nehek. Once you've wounded the general, you may want to save some dispel dice during his next magic phase because he'll certainly try and heal the general.
If killing the general is tough, take out the necromancers. They're made of tissue paper. Sneeze on them and throw them away.
If he has ethereal units, you need something with magical attacks to take them out, which is easy with their low WS and To. Demons can ruin a spirit hosts day in no time.
Unless he's playing Blood Dragon, he won't have any armor on his Vampire, but a lot of VC players take a ward save instead. So if you want to be really nasty, take a weapon, if you have one in the HoC armory, that ignores ward saves. That'll ruin his day. Kill his general and he'll concede after his army crumbles for a turn or two.