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  1. #1
    Senior Member C'Tan Pooky's Avatar
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    Are the marks of chaos worth their points?

    I'm looking to get into WFB (I've been playing 40k for a while now) and want to do a Chaos army. I also don't want to go Chaos "Undecided" and was looking to do Khorne. The marks for units seems really expensive and was wondering if they are really worth their points. It would seem that the only units that can get them are the elite units, like chaos warriors. The gang-bangers/ cannon fodder mauraders can't get them. This means to me that to maximise the value of the mark you want to make the unit as large as possible (so as many models get the benefit as possible). But if you do that then your points are chewn up really quickly. Also I haven't seen an army list yet without cannon fodder for Khorne (need to screen those damned frenzy units!)

    So, are marks (in particular the mark of Khorne) really worth their points?

    Black Templars 3000 points
    Tau Empire 1750 points
    Tyranids 1500 points

    Hordes of Chaos *Coming soon*

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  3. #2
    Member jecjackal's Avatar
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    all of the marks in warhammer fantasy are worth their points.

    Khorne-the frenzy gives +1 attack. Now imagine giving thoes khorne berserkers great weapons. 2 attacks at str 6 usually needing 3's to hit. now imagine chosen khorn berserkers. It would be wize buying shields for them to protect against ranged attacks. Khorne knights are just as nasty

    Nurgle-If you ever play against the undead, you will find just how annoying fear really is. I have seen several battles won and and lost because a unit didn't get the nerve to charge a unit of black knights (skeleton knights).

    Slaanesh-immune to psychology is not as great as the other gods. However you are still immune to fear which is a +.

    Tzeentch-tzeentch plays fundamentally differnt from the other three. your main damage is your heroes by lobbing spells. the +1 power dice per unit is extreemly useful.

    Khorne in fantasy is highly feared. Trust in your great ax and you will go far.
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  4. #3
    n2t
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    Besides for purely fluff purposes, you can't go wrong. Fact is it gets boring playing vanilla all the time.
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  5. #4
    Koosh for the KooshLord kooshlord's Avatar
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    Here's my thoughts:

    For UNITS: Khorne, Slaanesh and Tzeentch are worth the points. I play large blocks of khorne infantry, but smallish blocks of cavalry. Slaanesh is cheap enough that including it is not a big problem. Tzeentch you generally want many smaller blocks of whatever to maximize your power dice.

    I don't like Mark of Nurgle on units. You are rarely going to outnumber, and the best benefits of fear (causing units to flee when charged, autobreak due to fear) are not realized unless you outnumber the foe. This is often prohibitively expensive with Chaos. However, Nurgle Minotaurs are excellent, and the nurgle daemons are cute also. Nurgle characters are nice though. And with a fear-causing character in an unmarked unit (can't join undivided units) you get immunity to fear anyway.

    I tend to play 1 big block of khorne infantry with a lord, 1 small unit of knights, which are sometimes khorne, and a bunch of unmarked/undivided stuff. I have a lot of units from the BOC book, I find they are invaluable to me.

    Hope it helps!
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    I think the mark of Nurgle isn't worth its points becuase as chaos you will never outnumber the foe which is where the real benifit is in fear.

    The mark of Slaanesh is alright but it is quite cheap.

    Tzeench is very good if you have alot of sorcerers in your army, so you can throw lots of spells about.

    Khorne I think is the best and my prize unit is chosen khorne warriors with 2 HW in 2 lines of 6, these guys have 25 attacks which usally hit and wound on 3s.

    I hope this helps and good luck with your army (Y)
    Fantasy: hordes of chaos 2500pts
    40K: tyranids 1000pts
    Battlefleet Gothic: Chaos 1000pts

  7. #6
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NidsRock View Post
    I think the mark of Nurgle isn't worth its points becuase as chaos you will never outnumber the foe which is where the real benifit is in fear.
    That's one of the the big weaknesses of the MoN - Fear is at its best with large numbers, so only chunky units of knights tend to benefit.

    Both the MoT and MoN have one big downside - the lack of protection from psychology. Slaanesh, Khorne and Undivided all give you a way to evade the more "mundane" and common tests like panic. Without a Lord nearby, knights and warriors only have a slightly better than average ld. (Nurgle, of course, has immunity to fear.)


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  8. #7
    Senior Member Orkbert's Avatar
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    This means to me that to maximise the value of the mark you want to make the unit as large as possible
    Well, that also depends on the mark and the use you have for it.

    Khorne: The only mark which has some direct influence on the models itself (the extra attack), preferrably equipped with 2nd handweapon, although a halberd for extra chopping fun might be useful (chopping through armour, to be specific :shifty: ) though that depends on the opponent.
    Unfortunately, unless you also equipped them with the khorne-specific banner (which further raises the costs) the frenzy can also be lost and the the effect of the mark is reduced to a rather expensive extra dispel dice.

    Nurgle: Well, Kooshlord has hit the nail on the spot. Whilst the mark itself is cheaper than fear-causing banners in other armies (and their fear can be negated by killing the BSB ^_^ ) you're stuck with a rather expensive unit (the BSBs of the other armies can stick in some cheap infantry) although with non-chosen you might be able to get a 20 to 25 strong unit which hopefully doesn't get shot up during the time it needs to reach close combat :hmm:
    As for being not auto-broken when facing enemy fear-causing units, you'd get that cheaper with Slaanesh.

    Slaanesh: Immune to psychology is nice. It doesn't matter if the srceening beastherd runs right trough'em, fear/terror, they don't give a damn :w00t: and as a bonus, the have access to the rapturous standard.
    The only drawback is that they can't choose flee as a charge reaction, but that's about it.

    Tzeentch: Since the availability of power dice got restricted with the advent of 7th edition (I usually had a lvl2 sorcerer standing somewhere in the back with a main purpose of giving his 2 dice to my Tzeentch Lord ) extra dice for the pool are always nice.
    It ain't easy bein' green... :-)

  9. #8
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    Personally I think the mark of undivided is the best value for the points. 0 points to be exact. Reroll psy tests for free makes a LD8+ (main units) army almost as good as one that is immune to psy and you can still flee if you don't like a charge.

    Let me run down why.

    Nurgle - is the hardest. Expensive mark and your units are often too expensive to outnumber and take full advantage of it. However in demonic lists I think it's one of the best marks. So most of the time the only benefit is that your opponents will need to make a fear test every now and then when they want to charge you.

    Slaanesh - very good mark, if any of them would be worth it it would be this mark. Cheap mark, gives immune to psy (which is often a disadvantage but often not). But it's biggest benefit comes from the awesome lore of magic spells. Possibly the best lore in the game. And finally it gives you the availablility of some great speed. Movement 10 mounts.

    Khorne - the most useless of them all in my opinion. You pay lots of points for 1 extra attack in CC and a dispel dice. The dispel dice is nice and the extra attack on warriors, knights or minotaurs will rock any combat. But the problem is that you pay points to give your opponents flanks and stuff. Frenzy will kill you in the end. A dispel dice and a extra attack does not make up for giving your opponents (partial) control over your movement phase and you have to pay a lot of points to do it. Unless you are a very good players Khorne will be your downfall more then it will win you games.

    Tzeentch - not a bad one but I think the big power of a chaos mortal army is how reliable they are. With the mark of Tzeentch you give that up. Panic will all of a sudden become a major liability. I do have to agree that the extra magic is nice. But the mark on your characters makes them unproportionately expensive.

    So you can't beat the value of undivided.

  10. #9
    Kut Maar Krachtig Zema's Avatar
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    i'm not a fantasy player, but i would like to start a BoC nurgle army, i do have a question however:

    can the MoN be given to the gor/ungor unit?
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  11. #10
    Advocatus Diaboli Rork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeZu View Post
    can the MoN be given to the gor/ungor unit?
    No. And you don't need to write in a big font.

    Khorne - the most useless of them all in my opinion. You pay lots of points for 1 extra attack in CC and a dispel dice. The dispel dice is nice and the extra attack on warriors, knights or minotaurs will rock any combat. But the problem is that you pay points to give your opponents flanks and stuff. Frenzy will kill you in the end. A dispel dice and a extra attack does not make up for giving your opponents (partial) control over your movement phase and you have to pay a lot of points to do it. Unless you are a very good players Khorne will be your downfall more then it will win you games.
    That's the thing - Khorne takes work. A khorne army is very rewarding and powerful if you take the time to learn every last detail of how it works. You have to be on the ball before the game starts and there are various aspects of the meta-game that become abundantly clear to you when you use a Khorne-based army (such as placing characters on the exposed flanks of units).

    Flank charges can be deterred, and in some cases invited (Yes, that's right. CKoK can take it in the flank and win). Khorne isn't useless - while it is one of the most direct armies in warhammer (Rush up to the enemy and hit them) getting the army to what you want when you want it to is one of the biggest challenges in the game.

    Despite appearances, Khorne is the thinking man's army.


    Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.

    Quote Originally Posted by amishcellphone
    <3 rork. He does all the arguing so I don't have to.

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