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  1. #1
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    My first attempt at 2k, balanced list

    Okay, I finally got the WE book, and finally made up a list as a starting point.

    I'll give the list, then my justification.

    Heroes:

    Wild Rider Noble
    - Elven Steed
    - Light Armour
    - Shield
    - Dawnspear

    Spellsinger
    - Level 2
    - Calaingor's Stave

    Spellsinger
    - Level 1
    - Dispel Scroll x 2

    CORE:

    10 Glade Guard

    10 Glade Guard

    8 Dryads

    8 Dryads

    8 Dryads

    5 Glade Riders
    - Musician

    SPECIAL:

    5 Wild Riders

    3 Treekin

    8 Wardancers
    - Musician

    RARE:

    Treeman

    5 Waywatchers

    1997 points
    5 PD
    4 DD
    74 models (by my count)
    ------------------------------------

    There it is. Now let me include my thoughts:

    1. No highborns. I've said before that, as a player that believes in the strength of troops, I can't understand how a 250-300 point model would be worth it. I even struggle a little with the idea of a treeman, and HE is darn tough. The Wild Rider Noble I chose because it seems to me that the Wild Rider unit would be a very good thing to KEEP ALIVE until later in the game, thus the Dawnspear. I considered a Wardancer Noble or an Alter Noble. The Wardancer Noble just didn't feel like it added enough (Wardancers already just seem so good on their own) and the Alter Noble, well, I wanted a general that wasn't a Spellsinger, on those occasions that troops might actually use his Leadership, and just because you can't have a wizard leading your army! (IMO, not rules-wise).

    2. The Spellsingers are there, firstly and obviously, for magic protection. The level 2 will hopefully give me a chance of getting off a treesing or two once I've hunted down an enemy mage. I've not played WFB yet, so I'm not sure exactly what the balance of magic will be like. My mate, who's starting O&G, has his own initial list that includes 1 Orc Shaman and 1 Gobbo Shaman.

    3. I included the usual 2 GG units, 2 Dryad units, and a Glade Rider unit, that I see on most lists. The 3rd Dryad unit was added after I'd done all the other units and Heroes and had 100 points left over.

    4. Wild Riders and Wardancers basically pick themselves.

    5. Treekin. I threw them in there because they're kinda cool. Realstically, if I modify the list, they're probably going to be the first thing that goes, because I'm still very fuzzy on their uses. I can't get a good idea of how good an anvil unit they'd actually be, especially considering their cost, and as a hammer unit, they seem slow. (Compared to Wild Riders anyway).

    6. Treeman because I see them in most lists and most people seem to think they're all but essential (I said all but, I'm not looking for a debate on the essentiality of a Treeman).

    7. Waywatchers are cool. Nuff said.

    So this list is a mix of stuff I think looks cool (to play with, or the models are cool) and stuff that I've seen included in most lists, so I figure it must be at least partly effective. I'd consider Warhawk Riders, or maybe a Great Eagle. Eternal Guard don't really float my boat, as they seem to conflict with my whole percieved playstyle for WE.

    Other questions:

    My big one is about unit champions and banners. I'm never sure whether they're worth it. Banners can give big VP to the opponent, and it seems to me that none of the units capable of carrying a banner are that survivable. There's fragile Glade Guard, and Wild Riders who'll be in the thick of it the whole time, and will probably have my opponent gunning for them (even more so because my General will be there as well). Obviously GG aren't a candidate for a banner, really, but is it worth it on Wild Riders? And as for champions, again, you're playing almost the full cost of another model for 1 extra attack. I wonder if it's worth the extra few points to buy the whole extra model and get an extra wound in the unit. What do people think?

    Constructive criticism and comments are welcome and appreciated.


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  3. #2
    Firefly Skarsgard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    Okay, I finally got the WE book, and finally made up a list as a starting point.

    I'll give the list, then my justification.

    Heroes:

    Wild Rider Noble
    - Elven Steed
    - Light Armour
    - Shield
    - Dawnspear

    Wildrider characters can only have light armour, no shields.

    Spellsinger
    - Level 2
    - Calaingor's Stave

    Spellsinger
    - Level 1
    - Dispel Scroll x 2

    CORE:

    10 Glade Guard

    10 Glade Guard

    8 Dryads

    8 Dryads

    8 Dryads

    5 Glade Riders
    - Musician

    SPECIAL:

    5 Wild Riders

    3 Treekin

    8 Wardancers
    - Musician

    RARE:

    Treeman

    5 Waywatchers

    1997 points
    5 PD
    4 DD
    74 models (by my count)
    ------------------------------------

    Nice list mate, very thouroughly optimised and MSU used to full effect.


    So this list is a mix of stuff I think looks cool (to play with, or the models are cool) and stuff that I've seen included in most lists, so I figure it must be at least partly effective. I'd consider Warhawk Riders, or maybe a Great Eagle. Eternal Guard don't really float my boat, as they seem to conflict with my whole percieved playstyle for WE.

    Other questions:

    My big one is about unit champions and banners. I'm never sure whether they're worth it. Banners can give big VP to the opponent, and it seems to me that none of the units capable of carrying a banner are that survivable. There's fragile Glade Guard, and Wild Riders who'll be in the thick of it the whole time, and will probably have my opponent gunning for them (even more so because my General will be there as well). Obviously GG aren't a candidate for a banner, really, but is it worth it on Wild Riders? And as for champions, again, you're playing almost the full cost of another model for 1 extra attack. I wonder if it's worth the extra few points to buy the whole extra model and get an extra wound in the unit. What do people think?

    Constructive criticism and comments are welcome and appreciated.

    With your units banners would be a mistake, easy VP for your opponent. For the wildriders I always take the warbanner the extra combat resolution is always handy. I am not a big fan of unit champions in wood elf lists but I think musicians are a good investment.

    Glade guard work well with standards as they can support your skirmishing units but when you use them in 10 man squads its not a good idea.

    Overall, nice list mate.
    Mirage Arcana Podcast
    The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.

  4. #3
    Senior Member churchic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    Heroes:

    Wild Rider Noble
    - Elven Steed
    - Light Armour
    - Shield
    - Dawnspear

    Spellsinger
    - Level 2
    - Calaingor's Stave

    Spellsinger
    - Level 1
    - Dispel Scroll x 2
    The Wild Rider Noble looks pretty solid. If you could cut points somewhere else I would consider putting the Helm of the Hunt on him, it's a nice little addition and has some nice bonuses (I think that is legal).

    The Level 2 Spellsinger looks pretty solid, good choice with the magic item!

    A scroll caddy is a scroll caddy...nothing wrong with her.

    Extra thoughts...You might consider dropping the Stave on the Lv2 and making her a scroll caddy (I know lots of people don't like this but it's something I do and it works GREAT for me) and getting rid of the Lv1 alltogether and getting a Lv1 Branchwraith w/ Cluster of Radiants. This will give you 2 scrolls and 5 Dispel Dice which isn't a bad thing at all and you'll have a character that can hold her own in combat with a unit of Dryads backing her up.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    CORE:

    10 Glade Guard

    10 Glade Guard

    8 Dryads

    8 Dryads

    8 Dryads

    5 Glade Riders
    - Musician
    The Glade Guard are at the right unit size and the numbers are perfect...good job!

    The Dryads are looking solid as well!

    Glade Riders are a great addition to any army and you're running them the same exact way that I do.....great minds do think alike :shifty:

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    SPECIAL:

    5 Wild Riders

    3 Treekin

    8 Wardancers
    - Musician
    I always run my Wild Riders in group(s) of 5 w/full command. This helps them with the extra combat resolution and one extra attack at Srength 5 is a nice thing as well. I think this just comes down to personal preference but it is something that has always worked for me.

    I'm not a big fan of Treekin, the few games that I have used them they always get in the way of everything!!! The only thing that really turns me away from these guys is their movement because they move slow compared to other Wood Elves with the wheeling etc. If this was my list I would drop the unit and get something else.

    Now for the Wardancers...the only thing I can see wrong with these guys is that there is no Bladesinger. I always run these guys with full command b/c that extra attack can make your day...it's happened to me more than once...so there's another thing to think about.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    RARE:

    Treeman

    5 Waywatchers
    I think a Treeman is a great addition and must have with any army. he is an extremely tough and durable guy that can hold his own in combat and has more then a halfway decent chance at taking out high toughness characters...great choice!

    The Waywatchers are looking good but I usually run them in units of 7-10. I know that is a lot of guys but the chances at Lethal Shot are greater. Again I think this is just personal preference but it's something to consider.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    1. No highborns. I've said before that, as a player that believes in the strength of troops, I can't understand how a 250-300 point model would be worth it. I even struggle a little with the idea of a treeman, and HE is darn tough. The Wild Rider Noble I chose because it seems to me that the Wild Rider unit would be a very good thing to KEEP ALIVE until later in the game, thus the Dawnspear. I considered a Wardancer Noble or an Alter Noble. The Wardancer Noble just didn't feel like it added enough (Wardancers already just seem so good on their own) and the Alter Noble, well, I wanted a general that wasn't a Spellsinger, on those occasions that troops might actually use his Leadership, and just because you can't have a wizard leading your army! (IMO, not rules-wise).
    A Wardancer Noble is a nice thing to have as well, equip her with the Moonstone of the Hidden Ways and you now have a teleporting Wardancer unit of death. And trust me she does add quite a bit to the table if used properly.

    I played a game last night and used an Alter Highborn w/ Bow of Loren, Arcane Bodkins, Helm of the Hunt, Light Armor, Shield and Great Weapon. This angry little elf ran around killing everything he looked at: (5) 1+Sv Chosen Knights of Khorne (I rolled extremely well on this one), (4) 3+Sv Chosen Warriors of Khorne (that was to shooting)...(3) Carrions, (7) Marauders, and (10-11) Tomb Guard (this is where he got killed but it took my opponent 2 rounds to do it, and we were playing a team game)...that was in combat...the combat numbers are just estimates but I know he killed anywhere between 25 and 30 guys by himself! He was 272 pts and as you can see he more then paid for himself. I LOVE THIS CHARACTER and my army will ALWAYS have one of these guys in it! I had a Lv2 scroll caddy Spellsinger as my wizard and she did just fine. I kept her out of the way and just moved the trees to the best of her ability (Khorne has way to many Dispel Dice ().

    All in all don't underestimate most of the kindred(s) in a WE army especially the 2 that you have listed. The ones I avoid are the Scout, Waywatcher, and, Eternal...I think that covers it.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    2. The Spellsingers are there, firstly and obviously, for magic protection. The level 2 will hopefully give me a chance of getting off a treesing or two once I've hunted down an enemy mage. I've not played WFB yet, so I'm not sure exactly what the balance of magic will be like. My mate, who's starting O&G, has his own initial list that includes 1 Orc Shaman and 1 Gobbo Shaman.
    You pretty much hit this one on the nail but here is some advice. Don't ever count on getting one of your spells off as a WE. It rarely happens (but it does happen about once a game) for me unless I cast something with Irresistible Force.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    5. Treekin. I threw them in there because they're kinda cool. Realstically, if I modify the list, they're probably going to be the first thing that goes, because I'm still very fuzzy on their uses. I can't get a good idea of how good an anvil unit they'd actually be, especially considering their cost, and as a hammer unit, they seem slow. (Compared to Wild Riders anyway).
    I've already given you my 2 cents with these guys. I wish I would've never bought the models now but what can ya do? These guys are a hard hitting unit they are just so slow and with how many flaming weapons people are using now it really just doesn't help their cause IMO. If I were you I would just ditch these guys entirely and get something faster!

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    6. Treeman because I see them in most lists and most people seem to think they're all but essential (I said all but, I'm not looking for a debate on the essentiality of a Treeman).
    I'm not debating with you but I have to say it a Treeman is essential IMO! :yes:

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    Other questions:

    My big one is about unit champions and banners. I'm never sure whether they're worth it. Banners can give big VP to the opponent, and it seems to me that none of the units capable of carrying a banner are that survivable. There's fragile Glade Guard, and Wild Riders who'll be in the thick of it the whole time, and will probably have my opponent gunning for them (even more so because my General will be there as well). Obviously GG aren't a candidate for a banner, really, but is it worth it on Wild Riders? And as for champions, again, you're playing almost the full cost of another model for 1 extra attack. I wonder if it's worth the extra few points to buy the whole extra model and get an extra wound in the unit. What do people think?
    Obviously you don't want to put a banner on a unit of Glade Guard but I always do for the Wild Riders. If you take a unit of Wild Riders or generally anything else in the army and charge them head on into combat with no support you've already lost. WE units can beat the crap out of things but they can't take a punch to save their life. You never want to charge a unit head on when you are playing with WE. You need to combine charges and hit your opponent in the flank/rear. I always go with champions in the Wardancer and Wild Rider unit(s). Is it a smart move? I don't know but it is fluffy to a point and it has helped me out a few times!
    If anybody disagrees with me Chuck Norris will roundhouse kick you in the face.....not really. But wouldn't it be cool?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  5. #4
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    Wildrider Characters can't take the Helm of the Hunt.

    The only armour they can wear is Light Armour or magical equivalent.
    Mirage Arcana Podcast
    The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.

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    I thought a 6+ armor save was considered light armor. I don't think it's illegal.
    If anybody disagrees with me Chuck Norris will roundhouse kick you in the face.....not really. But wouldn't it be cool?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Senior Member DotR's Avatar
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    I thought a 6+ armor save was considered light armor. I don't think it's illegal.
    Magic items only count as mundane equivalents if they specifically say it. In this case it is nowhere close since it is a helmet (and may be combined with light armour and a shield fyi).

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    Quote Originally Posted by DotR View Post
    Magic items only count as mundane equivalents if they specifically say it. In this case it is nowhere close since it is a helmet (and may be combined with light armour and a shield fyi).
    100% correct mate. Nice.
    Mirage Arcana Podcast
    The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.

  9. #8
    Member gravity1337's Avatar
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    Take the alter noble then =O hes the solution to every problem.
    Float like a butterfly, Sting like a bee!

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