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  1. #1
    Member asrai archer's Avatar
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    3k, struggling against Chaos

    Hey fellows!

    Tomorrow I'm playing a 3k match against my best friends Chaos army. I know I'm actually a bit late posting the list now, but I just heard that we could play tomorrow. I know that he'll probably use 2 units of chaos knights, 2 units of marauders horseman with flails, a unit of 20 marauders a flying Tzeentch wizard and 2 nurgle wizards in 2 blocks of chaos warriors. That is what he normally fields (minor changes are possible). I always struggle against Chaos, so I hoped you could help me out.
    This is what I've come up with:

    -Alter Highborn
    w/LoB; AB; Glamourweave; GW; SH; LA
    @282pts

    -Standard Alter
    @158pts

    -2x Scroll caddie
    @2x140pts

    -4x10GG
    @4x120pts

    -3x8 Dryads
    @3x96pts

    -5GR
    w/mus
    @129pts

    -2x8 Wardancers
    w/mus
    @2x151pts

    -3 Treekin
    @195pts

    -5 WR
    w/ FC and warbanner
    @191pts

    -5 Waywatchers
    @120pts

    -2x Treeman
    @2x285pts

    Total: 2995pts

    Any comments or critics are welcome!

    -Asrai Archer


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  3. #2
    Member Midvalley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asrai archer View Post

    -Alter Highborn
    w/LoB; AB; Glamourweave; GW; SH; LA
    @282pts
    good choice against chaos

    -Standard Alter
    @158pts
    always good
    -2x Scroll caddie
    @2x140pts
    good magic defense

    -4x10GG
    @4x120pts
    thats quite a bit of arrows. Id possibly drop one we can use the points for some other things

    -3x8 Dryads
    @3x96pts

    -5GR
    w/mus
    @129pts

    -2x8 Wardancers
    w/mus
    @2x151pts

    -3 Treekin
    @195pts

    -5 WR
    w/ FC and warbanner
    @191pts
    id drop the champion and increase this unit to 6. It will allow you to maximize more hits

    -5 Waywatchers
    @120pts
    id also increase this unit by 1 or 2. I find WW in units of 7 tend to just do better.


    -2x Treeman
    @2x285pts

    Total: 2995pts

    Any comments or critics are welcome!

    -Asrai Archer

    So overall id drop a unit of GG and use those points to increase my WW and fix the WR unit. Unfortunately that leaves you some odd points floating around. which you could use to fortify your treekin if you wanted.



  4. #3
    Senior Member sirkently's Avatar
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    494 (x8)

    I think you need a fundamental rewrite here. Against warriors of chaos, you really need to outnumber them in units. You don't want to tie up your points in static units like treemen and treekin. You also have more archers than you can reliably use and it doesn't look like he has too many good targets for them anyway. I would go three units maximum, and probably drop to two units as marauders are your only really good targets.

    For your lord choices, my first would be a spellweaver with the wand of wych elm. If I wanted a second, it would be a combat alter. The machine gun alter is good, but against toughness 4 models, just isn't as efficient. Use the waywatchers for the killing blow.

    Your heroes are good, but I would consider a branchwraith with the cluster to go with the spellweaver.

    For troops, I would get more waywatchers. Two units of 6 to 7 would be great. And an eagle for march blocking. Cut down the archers as I said earlier. Get your wild rider unit up to 6. A unit of warhawks could be good for mage hunting.

    Hope this helps,
    SirKently
    I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.

  5. #4
    Member asrai archer's Avatar
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    Huhmm, well the idea with the treekin and dual treeman was to gne able to stop a charge for a turn and then countercharge with either WR or wardancers...
    Ah well, then I just go for the more mobile force. Here it goes:

    -Spellweaver
    w/Wand of Wych Elm, DS, PS
    @320pts

    -Highborn
    w/Great Eagle, Armour of the Fey, Amaranthin Brooch and Spear of twilight
    +LA, SH
    @301pts

    -Standard Alter
    @158pts

    -Scroll caddie
    @140pts

    -BRanchwraith
    w/lvl 1 wizard upgrade, CoR, PoS
    @165pts

    -3x10GG
    @3x120pts

    -3x8 Dryads
    @3x96pts

    -5GR
    w/mus
    @129pts

    -2x8 Wardancers
    w/mus
    @2x151pts

    -3 Treekin
    @165pts

    -3 Warhawk Riders
    @120pts

    -6 WR
    w/ FC and warbanner
    @217pts

    -6 Waywatchers
    @144pts

    -6 Waywatchers
    @144pts

    -Great Eagle
    @50pts

    Total: 3003pts

    I did the changes as reccomended. I was left with over 500pts so I included a CC orienterd lord on eagle. It has a nice save (4+ against magical CC, 3+ against non magical). The I was still left with 187pts... so I decided to get the treekin back, which left me 22pts. These I used for a PS, as a nasty suprise later on the game (bears anger ).
    Tell me what you guys think!

    -ASrai Archer

  6. #5
    Senior Member sirkently's Avatar
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    494 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by asrai archer View Post
    -Spellweaver
    w/Wand of Wych Elm, DS, PS
    @320pts
    You went over on the magic item points. Maybe drop the powerstone for a talisman of protection. It isn't much, but it is something.

    -Highborn
    w/Great Eagle, Armour of the Fey, Amaranthin Brooch and Spear of twilight
    +LA, SH
    @301pts
    Haven't seen this setup before as I recall. I like it.But you don't need to pay for light armour as you have a magical set.

    -Standard Alter
    @158pts
    Always useful.

    -Scroll caddie
    @140pts
    Good.

    -BRanchwraith
    w/lvl 1 wizard upgrade, CoR, PoS
    @165pts
    Fine.

    -3x10GG
    @3x120pts

    -3x8 Dryads
    @3x96pts

    -5GR
    w/mus
    @129pts
    Core looks good.

    -2x8 Wardancers
    w/mus
    @2x151pts

    -3 Treekin
    @165pts

    -3 Warhawk Riders
    @120pts

    -6 WR
    w/ FC and warbanner
    @217pts

    -6 Waywatchers
    @144pts

    -6 Waywatchers
    @144pts

    -Great Eagle
    @50pts
    I like this list against WoC much better. Still not a fan of the treekin here, but at least it gives him a tough target which might draw attention away from you other units.

    Good luck,
    SirKently
    I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.

  7. #6
    Member asrai archer's Avatar
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    Glad to hear that this one is better (I also love it), and I can't believe that I didn't saw that I went over the totals magic item allowance . One question, what would you use instead of treekin then?
    I'll post later on how it went!

    -Asrai Archer

  8. #7
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    Instead of treekin? probably another wild rider unit -- 6 man, musician only. And yeah, drop the champion from your wild riders.

    One thing to remember against chaos warriors: only fight when you want to or absolutely have to. There is no reason to engage his big blocks of infantry, just run around them and shoot them. You'll have to deal with his cavalry, but the infantry you can often ignore.

  9. #8
    Senior Member sirkently's Avatar
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    494 (x8)

    Yep, instead of treekin, I would get another unit of wild riders or another combat alter hero.

    SirKently
    I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.

  10. #9
    Member asrai archer's Avatar
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    Huhmm, I guess I'll try that one time, but it was too late for today, because I've fought that battle.. and won! By masssacre!!!

    He did however used a list which was quiete different from normal... This is what he got:
    A Chaos LOrd on chariot with deamon sword
    2x lvl 2 Nurgle sorcerers
    2x12 NUrgle Warriors
    2x5 Nurgle KNights
    2x5 MArauder Horsemen
    30 Marauders
    3 Chariots
    3 "naked" Ogres
    2x5 Dire Wolves

    I must say, I just loved being that manoevreble, I managed to get everything killed except his chaos lord... which wounded himself twice xD.
    Highlights:
    -Treekin ready for chaos knight charge (turn 2), only needed to hold for a single turn so my alter kindred guy and the eagle riding general could counter in his rear or flank... 11A, 1 missed... none failed to wound... NONE!! Damn, I couldn't believe my eyes, I managed 2 Wards but that was all. They run and were chased down. Although I still was able to charge with both the highborn and alter and slay but one cursed knight. That caused the Chaos lord to charge in.. he killed the HB and did 2 wounds on the eagle and himself!
    -Alter charged chaos warriors in the flank. Magic fase: I cast the Bears Anger on him. Hahah, 8A at S6 is sooo much fun xD, I slaughtered 4, the rest was run down.
    -The warhawks charged the Ogres in the flank, did two wounds, and the ogrs returned with two wounds. I withdrawed, but promptly trew 3 ones! And guess what, the Ogres ran 13", causing them to remain out of the game untill the very end (which saw the flank charged and slain my wardancers)

    Overall, a ver, very bloody battle with only a chaos lord, a spellweaver, a branchwraith a wounded hero, a spellsinger 2x10GG, 2x5 WW, 8 Dryads, 5GR and 5WR and an Eagle left! Hahah, quiete a lot units left standing by our standards (we normally end with 4/5 units).
    You guys think this kind of list works well against all comers?

    -Asrai Archer

  11. #10
    Senior Member sirkently's Avatar
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    494 (x8)

    Congrats on the win. For a 3500 point army, I think this is well balanced and would have a chance against all comers. Better against some than others, but still always a decent chance.

    Just one comment on the warhawks. You said you fled after a charge, but rolled a 3. It doesn't really matter what you roll as the unit you were fighting can't follow you. They are stuck in place. And how can they roll a 13 on 2D6?

    Well done,
    SirKently
    Last edited by sirkently; July 10th, 2009 at 16:52.
    I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.

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