Couple of semi-experimental 2250 lists - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    390
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    29 (x1)

    Couple of semi-experimental 2250 lists

    Here are a couple of experimental lists that I cooked up, relying primarily on active magic defense and avoiding sinking large numbers of points into any one thing.

    The first list has no lord and no treemen while the second list swaps the scroll caddy, a wardancer, and two core units for a treeman ancient. The first list has a bit more solid magic defense to hold the first turn and give you a chance to kill their casters while the second list has the advantage of a LD9 general and a solid combat monster to anchor the line.

    The key part of each list is the strong core supported by a lot of powerful fast flanking units that can do double duty as mage assassins. The sniper noble is a bit borderline, but he can take a wound off a mage at range in order to soften up the target for a warhawk or alter charge. Given that he is also an alter himself, he can combo charge with the two other alters to hit one unit with an impressive 13 S6 attacks at WS6-7, which is more shock value than most wood elf armies feature. I think that this close combat utility is what pushes a normally inefficient character into the usable range.

    One thing I might consider is swapping the wardancers out for more warhawks or wild riders.

    Another thing that I wonder is if the first list might be one of those "deceptively strong" lists that do well in comped tournaments -- the only real comp hits that I can see are for taking a lot of core shooters/skirmishers, which is counterbalanced by the almost complete lack of magic, no lord choice, and no treemen.



    LIST 1:


    Characters: 612

    Standard Alter
    Amber Alter
    Noble w/ Alter, GW, LA, Shield, Hunter’s Talon, Pageant of Shrikes
    Scroll Caddy


    Core: 960

    4x 10 Glade Guard
    5x 8 Dryads


    Special: 626

    6 Wild Riders w/ mus, std, war banner
    6 Wild Riders w/ mus
    8 Wardancers w/ mus
    3 Warhawk Riders


    Rare: XX

    Great Eagle


    TOTAL: 2248



    LIST 2:


    Characters: 847

    Treeman Ancient w/ Cluster of Radiants, Annoyance of Netlings
    Standard Alter
    Amber Alter
    Noble w/ Alter, GW, LA, Shield, Hunter’s Talon, Pageant of Shrikes


    Core: 744

    3x 10 Glade Guard
    4x 8 Dryads


    Special: 608

    6 Wild Riders w/ mus, std, war banner
    6 Wild Riders w/ mus
    7 Wardancers w/ mus
    3 Warhawk Riders


    Rare: XX

    Great Eagle

    TOTAL: 2249


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member sirkently's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,361
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    494 (x8)

    I like the basic concepts. Couple things I might change up though. I think I would drop some things and pick up a unit of waywatchers. The lists don't have much that can deal with heavily armoured foes.

    My personal preference would be for an alter with the amaranthine brooch over the amber pendant. And I don't think I would make the sniper an alter. He has to be visible to his targets, which means a lot of times he will be visible to shooters and mages, which is problematic. Just a normal noble in a unit of wardancers or glade guard, would give him a little bit of protection in the beginning. He could leave the unit once the general setup of the forces has been reached. Or possibly put him on the eagle, which would give him some good movement ability, and a little bit of protection.

    Have fun,
    SirKently
    Last edited by sirkently; August 9th, 2009 at 00:05.
    I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    390
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    29 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by sirkently View Post
    I like the basic concepts. Couple things I might change up though. I think I would drop some things and pick up a unit of waywatchers. The lists don't have much that can deal with heavily armoured foes.

    My personal preference would be for an alter with the with the amaranthine brooch over the amber pendant. And I don't think I would make the sniper an alter. He has to be visible to his targets, which means a lot of times he will be visible to shooters and mages, which is problematic. Just a normal noble in a unit of wardancers or glade guard, would give him a little bit of protection in the beginning. He could leave the unit once the general setup of the forces has been reached. Or possibly put him on the eagle, which would give him some good movement ability, and a little bit of protection.

    Have fun,
    SirKently
    I'm curious about your thoughts on amaranthine brooch vs. amber pendant -- not sure I understand why you'd suggest that.

    I'm also not a big fan of fielding the sniper on foot as I think he'll need some mobility to get positioned well, and I'm not too terribly worried about return fire as I have a lot of glade guard to kill enemy shooters and he'll mostly be firing from cover. That said, I see your point and careful positioning will be critical.

    That said, I really like the eagle idea. With the 25 points saved from losing the alter, you're half way to paying for an eagle anyway -- you could just scrap a wardancer and the musician and have the eagle paid for, allowing you to keep the rare choice one. Additionally, if you find 13 more points somewhere you can make him a BSB. I know this isn't the kind of army that really benefits from a BSB, but at the cost of only 13 points (he'll have to lose the shield) it seems like a pretty good value. If nothing else, he can swoop in and add an extra point of combat res to whatever combat, and while he won't be quite as hard hitting as he would be as an alter the difference won't be that big. Furthermore, the eagle protects him somewhat from shooting, of course.

    I thought about some waywatchers but I'm not entirely convinced of their ability to take out heavily armored troops, especially when compared to equal points of glade guard. The numbers are quite surprising really:

    6 Waywatchers vs. 12 Glade Guard, Close Range:

    Against T4, 1+ save - .67 wounds (GG), .88 (WW): Waywatchers win by 31.3%
    Against T4, 2+ save - 1.33 wounds (GG), .88 (WW): Glade Guard win by 51.1%
    Against T3, 1+ save - .88 wounds (GG), .90 (WW): Waywatchers win by 2.3%
    Against T3, 2+ save - 1.78 wounds (GG), .90 (WW): Glade Guard win by 97.8%

    So basically, against the toughest of the tough waywatchers win out, but against 2+ save or worse, glade guard fare FAR better.

    Of course, waywatchers have the advantage of better deployment and will likely get off an extra round or two of close range shooting while glade guard are still at long range... but even then I'm not sure you can really rely on Waywatchers to take on heavy cavalry. Even if given the entire game to shoot at enemy knights, they're only going to kill about 1 model each, and given knights' speed, you're more likely to get 1-3 turns of close range shooting at most.

    I also think that combined alter charges against knight units can be really effective, especially if you go in the flank. With the amber pendant you'll never get return attacks even if the combat lasts into a second round -- On the charge, the three alters will average a total of 3 kills against a unit of nurgle chaos knights (probably the toughest heavy cav in the game), enough to win combat against a unit with a standard. More likely than not, you'll only lose combat if they have a standard, BSB, and musician, and even then you only lose by 1 and will get nearly as many kills the next turn (average 2.5), after which point the enemy unit is likely gone or down to one guy.

  5. #4
    Senior Member sirkently's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,361
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    494 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by swarmofseals View Post
    I'm curious about your thoughts on amaranthine brooch vs. amber pendant -- not sure I understand why you'd suggest that.
    My thinking is that when you hit combat, you want to break them on the first go. Protracted combats with an alter don't happen enough for me to warrant the amber pendant. And I like the save vs shooting.

    SirKently
    I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.

  6. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    390
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    29 (x1)

    True, I guess I was figuring that the amaranthine brooch doesn't help in close combat either except in the second round (most likely), but the amber pendant helps against ASF dudes and ultra-tough or stubborn enemies that you can't count on breaking... that and that the briarsheath would be enough protection vs. shooting.

    I do see your point though!

  7. #6
    Senior Member sirkently's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,361
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    494 (x8)

    I have nothing against the amber pendant either. Maybe I am 51/49 in favour of the brooch, and you are in favour of the pendant. Both are good choices.

    SirKently
    I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.

  8. #7
    Senior Member AJ200's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Age
    30
    Posts
    375
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    8 (x1)

    Just out of interest - how is the Amber Alter kitted out? any other magic item?

  9. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    390
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    29 (x1)

    Great Weapon, Shield, Amber Pendant, Briarsheath. His weakness is magic missiles, so you want to get him into combat as quickly as possible or keep him out of LOS of the mages. If you are playing with closed lists he can be especially nasty as opponents will have to guess which alter is which with shooting and may waste a round of shooting trying to hit your amber alter. In soft cover at long range he's a ridiculous -5 to hit. Of course, you must watch out for autohit stuff like Organ Guns as well as troops/characters that hit on a fixed value (lifetaker, tomb kings skeletons and the like. He's weak against some armies but very, very strong against others.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts