Welcome to Librarium Online!
My friend and myself are entering our first tournament, its a 1k each doubles tournament.
My firend is playing WoC and I have my WE. His potential list is here http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ournament.html (1000 Point Double Tournament)
Here is my list, any feedback is appreciated.
Standard alter 158
Glade Guard x10 126
Glade Guard x10 126
Dryads x8 96
Wild Riders x6 199
music + Warbanner
Waywatchers x5 120
Do you share pool power dice? I mean do you each get 2 for pool or do you share 2 for the entire army? If you share - ditch your lvl and make your wizard a caddy only and beef up your waywatchers or something.
Unless you plan your archers to move up and do alot of fleeing I personally don't run them with a musician but your points seem well balanced as it is so that's your preference
I did see your friends list and he has a fair amount of core infantry. Dryads might let you down and with the points you have left if you drop your mage to a caddy - maybe pick up 5 Glade Riders for march blocking and flank/rear charges. Or just simply do some annoying tactics - one of which is put alter behind them as the Glade riders and Alter go for a war machine (organ guns especially, cannons might bounce into your noble - careful) and if they kill many Glade Riders... remove the ones in front of the noble etc etc... Since your friend has already got some solid combat you could back him up with more cavalry
Those are some Ideas I had - good luck! WE are the best team to play!
This is a very interesting combination. Before I give feedback though, I want to know -- are you going for maximum effectiveness or do you care about comp scores/being thought of as "cheesy" etc. This will have a pretty substantial impact on my suggestions!
1question - Are neither of you taking a Lord?
Besides this, I dont think that your 2 armies will synergise as well as you think for th folloing reason:
Woodleves have lots of small units, and are very manouverable, this is what lets them always have LOS on the enemy for arrow fire. What I am worried about is that you have 2 units of 10 Glade Guard, but your mate has several units of built up warriors (Knights of Chaos, Warriors of Chaos and Marauders), which will move up the field and block your sights.
My personal opinion is that, If he is taking built up units like in his current list, then you should focus on Glade Riders and Wild Riders, so you have plenty of units that can get in, around the back, and charge at the same time as your mate, so you break them from the rear.
to put it another way - I dont think your 20 Glade Guard will be at all effective, since you mate is marching into war, which means you will get half as much fire time, and the Essential 15" Str 4 shots will be useless because at that point your friend will be in combat, and you cant shoot into the combat.
Fastcav = good. / Waywatchers= good. / Dryads = ok, but dont let the table get crampt / 10man Glade Guards = bad. / Standard Alter = Essential
Last edited by AJ200; August 21st, 2009 at 09:47.
- Wood Elves + Orcs & Goblins since 2009 -
I like the list pretty well the way it is. I would probably change one unit of glade guard for a unit of glade riders though, as bait and flee could be really effective with your partners list.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
Thanks for the replies.
It is a shared pool of dice, and we have 3 in the pool because of a WoC magic item. Our plan is to give all the extra dice to a WoC sorcerer unless there was a foolish enemy unit in the woods, in which case we would give some extra dice to my spellsinger to throw multiple treesingings on that unfortunate unit.
Cheese is a bit of an issue, the tourny is set up so that the team with the most points at the end wins. About 60% of the points come from how your matches turn out. 20% comes from painting and the other 20% comes from sportsmanship, which includes questions like "Was this list a balenced tournament list?, and "Would you fight this army again?". So too much cheese wouldn't be a great idea. I looked at taking a treeman but I thought it was over the top cheese for our size.
I think the tourny is set up so that each 1k army is its own legal army, and the two are just put together, so this eliminates the possibility of taking lords. I guess it makes it a bit more balenced.
I think Glade Riders could be a great idea, I will probably drop a unit of glade guard and the musician on the other and use the 132 points from that to take a unit of glade riders with a musician. That will let me send my glade riders down one flank and the wild riders down the other.
I kinda agree with AJ in that I don't think your lists maximize the synergy between the two armies. While I don't think the glade guard will be useless (especially given that your friend's army is really slow for a WoC army), there is some tension between the two forces. I see your force as more of a "I'm going to make you come to me and then out maneuver you" type force while your friend's list is more of a "I'm going to come at you slowly and then bash you in close combat" type list.
If you are going to keep your lists close to what they are now, then I mainly agree with SirKently's suggestions, although I might consider dropping the waywatchers instead of the glade guard. Perhaps that would be foolish, but I don't see them getting much support early.
If you are entertaining more dramatic changes, here's how I might build the lists, keeping in mind your desire to leave out the possibility of treemen and not get too cheesy (ie: one unit of chaos knights only) and keeping some similar elements (the basic characters and so forth):
Wood Elves: (997 points total)
Spellsinger as in your list (175)
Standard Alter (158 )
2x 8 Dryads (192)
5 Glade Riders w/ musician (129)
Wild Rider unit as in your list (199)
8 War Dancers (144)
WoC: (996 points total)
Nurgle Sorc as listed, plus Chaos Steed (201)
Tzeentch Sorc as listed, plus Disc (210 )
2x 5 Marauder Horsemen w/ Light Armor, Throwing Axes, Mark of Slaanesh (180 )
5 Marauder Horsemen w/ Flails, Mark of Khorne (115)
5 Chaos Warhounds (30 )
5 Knights as listed (260 )
I think this gives you some really nice synergy. You have a powerful magic phase with three solid casters and a lightning fast combat army. The Slaaneshi marauders and Glade Riders screen your more valuable units, get behind enemy lines and pelt soft targets with throwing axes/longbow shots, possibly going for a rear or flank charge if necessary and/or harassing enemy missile units and war machines. The Warhounds screen the Khorne Marauders, which provide a hard hitting flank unit that can work in tandem with the wild riders. The Knights (put the nurgle sorc here) are strong enough to charge units in the front and form the vanguard of your force. The dryads and war dancers run up behind and hit the flanks of your enemies in support of the knights, or take on softer targets in the front while the fast cav hits the flanks. The standard alter hoses down someone with the HoDA and then jumps in combat to support the cav and skirmishers. If your enemy doesn't have much in the way of magic or missile fire, you can separate the nurgle sorc from the knights so he can continue to cast while the knights get stuck in.
I think this setup emphasizes both the shared strengths of the two lists (fast cav) and each list's individual strengths as well (excellent combat skirmishers for WE, hard hitting heavy cav and powerful magic for WoC).
Just something to consider!
I'm tbeck's partner for this tournament (the WoC player). Just thought I'd pop by this neck of the woods seeing as how there isn't much activity on my end. I can see where your coming from with the disynergy of the lists in that both have different objectives, we figured their difference in play styles would help fill in the weaknesses of the two armies to create a more effective force.
I really like the look of your proposed list swarmofseals, and the lists seem to have a very solid battle plan the way you designated them. Sadly at the moment I've only got 1 unit of marauder horsemen, so if we go in this direction I'll have to pick up some more models. I'm pretty sure tbeck has got all the models required for his end (maybe not the second set of 8 dryads, but i'm not 100% sure).
Just a small correction on the WoC side, the MoK marauder horsemen (or cruise missile) actually only costs 105. So there are a few more points that could be spent, so maybe spend them add Musicians to the Slanneshy maruders so that they can flee more effectively if they get charged while running out to pelt people?
Also just out of curiousity, what would be a cheese list for a WE/WoC pairing look like?
Also any more comments, suggestions and criticisms are greatly appreciated.
Ahh yes, available models are always a concern, although Marauder Horse are excellent so you'll probably want some more eventually anyway =)
Quite right on the Khorne horsemen -- 105 even with light armor, so you have some points to spend on musicians as you said. Another option would be to turn them into a third unit of Slaanesh horse and get an extra unit of warhounds, although I'd love the idea of hitting one flank of a unit with Wild Riders and the other with Khorne Horse!
Cheese is always subjective, but here is what I would consider cheesy:
Wood Elf Side: Both Treeman and Standard Alter
Chaos Side: More than three of the following -- unit of chaos knights, level 2 sorc w/ good items.
So taking 2 units of chaos knights and 2 sorcs would be a little cheesy, imo.
The biggest cheese you could go for would be something like 2 units of marauder horse, 3 units of chaos knights, and 1-2 sorcs on the chaos side, a treeman, standard alter, scroll caddy, and whatever else on the wood elf side (probably some mix of wild riders, war dancers, and dryads).
That said, this doesn't even approach the level of cheese that, say, two daemon armies can manage, or any mix of daemons/dark elves/lizardmen/vampire counts.
I play both armies, and actually wrote my own list for a doubles tournament myself, I'll see if I can find it.
Could you please put in the rules for the tourney? is it simply 2 1000pt armies together, or are you splitting a 2000point forst evenly? If so, what are the distribution of core heros ect.
In the meantime I'll read these posts and catch up. I have to dissagree with whoever stated these 2 armies do not synergize well. WE and WOC are polar oppisites and can really compliment eachother well. (perhaps he was just reffering to these 2 lists)
I should also add that there is no item that i know of that adds a power dice to the pool. the power familiar adds 1 dice to its owners pool, which I think means only for that paticular caster. could be wrong on this tho since i never really wanted to use that dice on anyone but who has it.
Last edited by talismanictattoo; August 21st, 2009 at 23:45.