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Okay, it's me again.
So... I understand the whole concept of multiple-charges against a single enemy unit, on the basis that we are fast enough to do it, and too light not to do it. This will mean that we get plenty of models attacking so as to cause wounds, a flank bonus, possibly an outnumbering bonus, and maybe a few other bits and pieces.
But I was wondering how important it is to take away a ranked up unit's rank bonus. Do people take extra units of things that can remove rank bonuses, or is the view mainly that "A few are handy, but we have enough hard-hitting units that can triple-team the enemy, so that we don't really HAVE to break rank bonus." My understanding is that the only units that CAN break rank bonus are Treemen, Treekin, Glade Guard and Eternal Guard. And there's something that I notice about all of them. And that's that none of them move faster than infantry (fast infantry, but infantry nonetheless). Additionally, none of them skirmish.
And that's what causes me to ask. Because I would have thoght that our most common flanking units would be Glade Riders and Wild Riders, and then Dryads and Wardancers, because of their cavalry movement and because of their skirmishing, respectively. (I've left out Warhawks and Great Eagles just because, well, just because.).
So do people prefer to use fast flanks like Riders, or heavier remove-rank-bonus flankers like Treekin and Treemen? Can you even consistently GET a flank charge with Treekin? I would think that given the non-cavalry movement, and the fact that they'd do a fair nasty job in the flank, that most opponents would be fairly wary of that sort of thing.
Fast Cavalery is the way to go in my oppinion. There is no sane person that would let you get a unit of treekin down the flank. They are
1. To big to not be noticed.
2. They are so slow that the enemy needs to LET you flank him.
3. They are in there own right powerful and therefore draws attention to themselves.
With Riders you get exellent manouverbility, but they are not as big mean and destructive, so they can keep out of enemy missile fire. They are also fairly (for elves anyway) cheap and fast.
I would always go for the riders... Treekin and the like are so powerful that they can charge head-on anyway, leaving the riders to flank the unit they are engaging.
As for how important removing ranks are:
Depends on the unit... if they have 1 rank, it's only fairly important, but if they have 3 ranks, then i most cases it is utter nessecity! If you think about the flank or rear charge; You not only remove up to 3 points from them, you also gain up to 2 points yourself, meanin you boost your result against the enemy by up to +5, which is HUGE!
On a more specific note, the units which accually have ranks, they NEED the ranks to win. Mostly they are not the units with the most kills pr. model, like spearmen. They instead go for the 3 extra ranks, outnumbering and banner, which leaves them with 5 in Combat result before blows are struck. I know treekin are powerful, but are you sure they kill 6 (as the enemy will most likely have a musician)? By flank charging with riders, they only have 2, and you have 1... seing that you will be killing 2-4 spearmen, you should win.
-lurking in the shadows of LO.
Officially diagnosed by TekoreMelkhior, Necrarch Lord
Also ranked infantry do not get the parry bonus for fighting with hand weapon and shield when fighting models engaged in their flank
Ah, it seems I was mistaken. I had been under the impression that they couldn't negate rank bonus. If they can, then that changes an awful lot. I'd remembered hearing that there were only about 3 things that could negate rank bonus in a WE army. Now that I think back, I was wrong about that too. I'd heard that there were only about 3 things that can GET a rank bonus...
That kind of negates my question. But I'll ask a new one:
In a 2000ish list, how many units of fast cav would you run, and what are they?
I usually run 3 units of Fast Cavalry in my army list(s). 2 units of (5) Glade Riders for baiting charges (for counter charges for Dryads, Treemen, and Wild Riders) and hitting in the flank/rear and the other unit is (6) Wild Riders for flank/rear charges. I always combine the charges and the Fast Cav usually hits in the flank or rear negating their rank bonus. Hope this helps.
If anybody disagrees with me Chuck Norris will roundhouse kick you in the face.....not really. But wouldn't it be cool?
I use my treekin for flank charges regularly.
Sure they're somewhat slow and it takes them a few turns but when they hit they will crush the strongest units.
Generally I have a unit of Glade Riders and a unit of Wildriders. I find that's more than enough to complement the rest of my army.
Its important for wood elves especially. They usually Dont get any kind of rank bonus, so you must tak it away as soon as you can. This can be tricky with skirmishers and fast cavalry, but its doable. Im a big fan of the combined charge.
"This sure ain't no pansy Eldar Armor, Son"
185th Cadian Armored Div.
"One Shot, One Kill"
Western Border Patrol of Athel Loren
Not so much, in my experience, because doing so is so damned difficult for us. More important, and more likely, is getting a flank or rear bonus, and a lot of wounds.
If you can negate ranks, then go for it, unless doing so would mean a disadvantage for you, like sending Glade Guard into the flank of Chaos Warriors and taking ten wounds in return.