Wild Rider Kindred - Stag or Steed - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Cyric the Mad's Avatar
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    Wild Rider Kindred - Stag or Steed

    In our discussion about Forest Dragons, we had a couple of people make a favorable comparison with the Great Stag. Now, let me start by saying that I love the Great Stag with my whole body - indeed, a Great Stag in a unit of 8 Wild Riders is the centerpiece for my army. But for me, it's purely an aesthetic choice. Bullish as the stag may look, I find it to be saturated in coolness.

    But from a game-effectiveness standpoint, is it really a better buy than just a steed? for ~35 points, we get much better strength, an additional attack, and a monstrous mount. Having used the stag in a few games, I can say the monstrous mount bit has never really had much of an impact. The Wild Rider unit is usually devastating enough that enemies rarely attack back or, in one case, the unit was just utterly demolished by leadbelchers.

    Since the monstrous mount loses the rider the +1 armor, does everyone consider the stag to be a good value or no?


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  3. #2
    Senior Member DotR's Avatar
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    The big problem I see is the base size.

    The stag takes the place of a wild rider so you're trading in 2 S3 attacks for a S5 attack (at higher WS). That is better but not worth 35 points.

    If only the Stag had 3 attacks.

    While we're on the topic lets consider the unicorn which I think is far superior to the stag. The problem of course is that you have to pay for glamourweave on the mage and the MR 2 doesn't work so well with wild riders. I have the model so I've been using it in my treekin for good effect, though certainly not worth the points.

  4. #3
    Senior Member _Toast_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyric the Mad View Post
    But for me, it's purely an aesthetic choice. Bullish as the stag may look, I find it to be saturated in coolness.
    I totally agree... As for the game version, meh...thats all ive got to say about that. For the cost of the great stag, i could have 2 more wardancers, or a couple more dryads here and there, but when i use him, its usually only in the big games, so a couple misspent points dont matter. The loss of armor is no biggie, i usually have him with an annoyance of netlings, and i love a good challenge. The extra attack is nice also, good for turning core units into pudding, something wildriders are amazing at.
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  5. #4
    Firefly Skarsgard's Avatar
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    I don't like the stag simply because it can get killed.

    I don't want to see my Wildrider noble walking!
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  6. #5
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Cyric the Mad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skarsgard View Post
    I don't want to see my Wildrider noble walking!
    Ha! I hadn't considered that possibility. That would be pretty funny, actually.

  7. #6
    Member gravity1337's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DotR View Post
    The big problem I see is the base size.

    The stag takes the place of a wild rider so you're trading in 2 S3 attacks for a S5 attack (at higher WS). That is better but not worth 35 points. your trading in your stag and noble/highborn for 2 elven steed attacks in 2 wildrider attacks (elven steeds get ws3 str3, but the wildriders are ws5, str4, 5 on the charge, and the 2 attacks later)

    If only the Stag had 3 attacks.

    While we're on the topic lets consider the unicorn which I think is far superior to the stag. The problem of course is that you have to pay for glamourweave on the mage and the MR 2 doesn't work so well with wild riders. I have the model so I've been using it in my treekin for good effect, though certainly not worth the points.
    For the general response though, I think the horse is better, specifically in smaller games, where you need to minimize costs, and maximize troops. In heavier games you could get away with it. (might be wrong though)
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  8. #7
    Senior Member DotR's Avatar
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    your trading in your stag and noble/highborn for 2 elven steed attacks in 2 wildrider attacks (elven steeds get ws3 str3, but the wildriders are ws5, str4, 5 on the charge, and the 2 attacks later)
    Actually its 1 wild rider attack on the charge since the steed takes up 1 extra spot.

    so on the charge its

    2xS5 vs 2xS3 and 1xS5

    after the charge

    2xS5 vs 2xS3 and 2xS4

  9. #8
    Firefly Skarsgard's Avatar
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    399 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by DotR View Post
    Actually its 1 wild rider attack on the charge since the steed takes up 1 extra spot.

    so on the charge its

    2xS5 vs 2xS3 and 1xS5

    after the charge

    2xS5 vs 2xS3 and 2xS4
    Are the wildriders elven steeds factored into this?
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  10. #9
    Bearded Ninja Arklite's Avatar
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    I would think so under the 2S3 attacks.

    I personally quite like the stag its fairly survivable in combat and it adds extra unit strength to the unit making the fear causing charge a little more potent.

    Generally speaking we need the wild riders to break the enemy in the first 1 or 2 rounds of combat or, lets face it, they will start to die rapidly. the stag sports two S5 attacks meaning it can take on the harder enemies such as dwarves and ogres with significantly better success where a elven mount would.... well suck. we loose the potential of attacks in favour of less, but significantly more powerful hits.

    Considering 2 mounts against the 1 stag the stag is superior against heavier troops thanks to its two high WS S5 attacks. Meaning it will hit on 3's most of the time and wound on 3's almost all the time. Horses on the other hand hit on 4's and wound on 5's. The extra rider is the difference. S5 on the charge and 2 S4 attacks afterwards are a tasty prospect but if everything is going as planned we shouldn't even need that second round of combat :/


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  11. #10
    Senior Member DotR's Avatar
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    The stag doesn't even give you the benefit of a champion for an extra 35 points.

    The wild rider unit is already expensive with champion and war banner. Add a noble to that and you're looking at 300 points. Adding a stag is a bit of overkill I think.

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