Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I am a complete noobie when it comes to WHFB. I have played a totally of 4 games now and are starting to catch on to the game.
The dwarf army I played against only had one unit of stonethrowers (maybe rock i dont remember) and the rest was a melee type army. He had a gyrocopter (took out a unit of my glade riders 1 round).
I had 20 waywatchers, 18 glade riders, 3 lvl 2 spellsingers, 1 lvl 4 spell weaver, and some glade guard.
Manipulate the trees. (cast treesinging 4 times a a turn) and shoot him with my bows.
We played twice and ended up drawing twice. I have to say that my "shooty army" did absolutly nothign. His toughness was to high for me to hit him. The only units that did any damage for me was my two units of 10 waywatchers.
I am starting to think that the Asrai bows are a little weak, Str 3 >.< attacks stinky haha..
Anyone have suggestions?
First off, 20 Waywatchers is WAY too many.. Against Dwarves, I would probably take either a unit of 7 or none at all. Killing blow rocks, but you just wont be able to kill enough of them to cause a panic, and even if you do, they have such high leadership that they wont run anywhere. Plus, if your opponent has a unit of Longbeards close, he gets to re-roll panic checks. Ultimately, you need less shooty-ness and more fighty-ness.
Glade Riders are good for baiting charges and screening Wild Riders. Sadly, you dont have any Wild Riders, and Dwarves arent exactly a charging army. I would drop down to about 5 of those guys and pick up some Wild Riders to run behind them.
Treesinging rocks as well, but ultimately you need to focus on combat. You can move trees around as much as you want, but you wont kill anything that way. Try some combat oriented characters like a Wardancer Highborn in a unit of 6 or 7 Wardancers or something like that.
Overall, the best way to compete against Dwarves is to move around a lot. I usually take 2 large units of Wild Riders with full command, about 4 units of Dryads, and a unit of Wardancers.
An alter kindred noble with the HoDA and HotH will also take out that warmachine of his.
Just be sure to flank and use combined charges. WE stand no chance against Dwarves in a head to head fight, so dont be afraid to be sneaky.
The only problem is that I am in a campaign. I am not supposed to change my army list but, they said since I am a complete n00bie I can change my army every month. I need to create a very balanced list. We have every army minus o&g in our campaign (all work friends). After that game I tend to agree that 4 casters just for treesinging is/was a waste. I know it is a little different because I was playing hte dwarves who have stubby little legs.
I am looking at completely revamping my shooting army.
I am thinking of removing all of my spellweavers and spellsingers.
I am going to add some dryads probably 2 units of 10 or 3 units of 8.
I am going to remove my glade riders as well. How are the wild riders?
I would use a unit of eternal guard and put the noble or highborn in it but I think that the eternal guards are going to be a huge target!
what do you think?
Bear in mind that Dwarfs aren't world-renowned for having big units. I seldom win combats against my Night Gobbo opponent, yet he doesn't beat me. Dwarfs win through attrition, and Woodies win by swift, 3-on-1 combats. Therefore,
Wardancers are a must. Knock down your enemy's warrior units with Glade Guard. Knock off even 1 rank, pick the Storm of Blades, and you should win within 1 combat phase, even if they charged on their own at the front. If you want to do more damage, charge them in the flank with a unit of Glade Riders. That will probably swing the combat by at least 3. You will have outnmber (if you didn't already), and a Flank charge, plus however many ranks you will have denied him.
Alter Nobles are useful. Before Skaven perfected the art of assassinations, there were these guys. My favourite combo is the Alter with an Amber Pendant and Briarsheath. This makes him pretty much invulnerable to shooting, and he can get charged and still strike first at S6. Artillery Crews are terrified silly of him, it's just a pity none of y opponents utilise in the art of War machines. He's also useful as he can choose when and where to charge.S^ is also useful for cutting open Dwarfs.
Could you please post what your opponent has/what you expect to face?
Finally, in answer to the S3 charge: No penalty to move-or-fire their 30" longbows that are at S4 in close range. That, believe me, does a lot of damage.
First off, I agree completely that 20 WW is too many. It will be hard to find food hidding spots for all of them and it is just a ton of points invested in a unit that will likely die. Also 18 Glade Riders just doesn't really work. Fast Cav don't get rank bonus so they shouldn't really be in units bigger than 6 (except maybe Wild Riders). About the spellsingers...if you moved the trees to block LOS and if you can get the enemy into the trees you can do massive damage.
Armies: Wood Elves, High Elves
Warbands Campaign 07: 1st
San Antonio Alamo GT
I am of the opinion that ALL elven armies were meant to be played aggressively merely backed up by ranged ability.
All elves have superior WS, I and LD which are the hallmarks of elite, specialized infantry.IMO, all your units are too big.I had 20 waywatchers, 18 glade riders, 3 lvl 2 spellsingers, 1 lvl 4 spell weaver, and some glade guard.
20 waywatchers is expensive and not too effective. They should be played in units of 6-7 as march blockers, war machine hunters, mage hunters and for harassing fast cavalry.
18 glade riders are also too big, even for two units.
Fast cavalry should be in units of 5 with nothing but their missile weapons and musicians for charge baiting, harassing flanks/missile troops and more march blocking.
As for the mages.
Wood elves do not have very offensive magic. As a result, going magic heavy and using the lore of athel loren is not going to win you any battles. You would be better with maybe 1-2 level 2 mages and then having an offensive character setup for the general.
Make use of your superb combative units, like wardancers, dryads, treekin, wild riders and treemen.
Most of these are skirmished and/or forest spirits making them harder to kill.
They are also fairly fast moving and excellent in combat.
Your current list seems a little one sided, i.e. too many missiles and nothing to follow up with,
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes. After that, who cares, your a mile away and you have his shoes!!
Chuck Norris invented water
I'm assuming he was telling us which models he had but not which units, since Glade Riders and Waywatchers both cap at 10. Nor would the units listed account for the entire list - A Spellweaver requires that it be at least a 2k game, and the model totals for what he listed (no upgrades or items) would mean he needed 40+ glade guard to hit 2k.
That said, the advice given so far is dead on - you can't rely on magic and shooting to carry your WE army to victory. You really need to make use of our solid combat units: Dryads, Wardancers, Treekin, Wild Riders, etc...
As much as I love Waywatchers, more than 5 or 6 is tough to use. Sure, they look ultra-sexy with their Killing Blow arrows, but you'll never roll enough 6's in a game to make them worth the points. You've got to find other ways to make them worth it. Since their typical strengths (march blocking and warmachine hunting) are impossible and difficult, respectively, against the short ones, their usefulness becomes limited.
Against an army like Dwarves, I'm a big fan of minimum-sized units of Dryads. You will almost never get a fear auto-break against them, and having small units means that, if they get picked apart by Dwarven guns, you have minimized your losses.
Wild Riders are great, but I'd keep a unit or two of Glade Riders to screen them. The inability of Wild Riders to flee charges, and their almost complete dependence on getting the charge, means they almost always benefit from a screening unit. Don't underestimate Glade Riders on the charge, either. They can do well as a flanking support unit.
I appreciate all of your replies.
This was a 2k game and I did not list all of my army but a good portion of it.
I am going to drop the # of mages. I am going to drop the insane number of waywatchers I was using.
I am currently working on an over balanced army and will be posting in here in a day or so.
being a complete noob to this game I can see how baiting the charges with my glade riders would be wonderful. I do have a question though. If I bait the charge what happens if he fails it because I flee?
If he is unable to contact one of your units with his charge move, he fails the charge. So if the glade riders successfully flee from his charge and he can't make it into contact with another one of your units using his charge movement, it becomes a failed charge and he moves accordingly. This is the best case for a charge-bait, since it leaves the enemy unit in position to be counter-charged by your (hopefully) positioned Wild Riders.
Granted I should probably make this a new thread but, just a general tactic question.
WE should always use combined charges. If I charge with wild riders from the front I have to line up face to face I cannot charge his side. On a second charge though I can take his side or if I was coming from the back then I could charge him from the rear and get the rear combat res bonus.
Wild Riders base movement is 5 right?
so a typical setup could be
wardacners wild riders
So I could flee and then combined charge the enemy unit right?