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It's been a very long time since I last touched my Wood Elf army... I think it was since the previous campaign. The truth is, I started Fantasy during the campaign time and got to play a couple games, but I never really got the hang of the strategies involved. Now that I picked it up again yesterday to try out a few games, I got massacred 3 games out of 3 games.
First two games were against Ogres: My 2 Treemans were chopped down in one turn (after killing off my unit of 10 Dryads and over-run into them) by a Tyrant w/ Tenderizer and a Bruiser w/ Sieger couped up in a big unit of 6 Ironguts with War Banner. The second unit of 8 Ironguts chased around my other unit of 10 Dryads and ran them to the ground. My 2 units of 6 Wild Riders ran around the flanks to chase shadows against his multiple units of 4 Bulls that runs whenever I declare charge on them. My 2 units of Glade Guards did do some damage on them but were not significant enough to cause any real change to the game. My level 4 and level 2 mages were not able to do much against his 2 butchers and dispel scrolls. I pretty much got steam rolled on the 3rd turn.
My second game were almost the same, except it was against an Empire army: I put my 2 Treemans into 2 different forests on the middle of the board touching each table edge. They surfed the wood all the way to my opponent's line on the 2nd turn to do some Strangleroots but no real damage. His Steamtank rolled up to my line and forced me to declare a charge against it on the 2nd turn with my Wild Riders (I realized how stupid it was after the game), without knowing anything about the Steamtank.. it literally steamrolled over me. :z My Glade Rider tried to bait the Empire Knights to charge them but they were positioned poorly so they couldnt have achieved anything... then they futrher failed the rally test next turn and ran off the table. One mortar shell hits my Glade Guards and caused a panic... they ran, and also caused another Glade Guard unit nearby with my General in it to run in panic. They both failed rally test the next turn and ran off the table. My other unit of Wild Riders, again, trying to flank but I was afraid of the Handgunners so I hugged terrain the entire game and never saw combat... another reason was because he placed his General on Griffon facing that unit the entire game.. waiting for them to pop out. This time, I am literally steam-rolled by the Steamtank, I just dont know how to deal with it.
Fantasy is a fun game, but I just cant seem to get the grip of it.
Hey, sorry for the harsh times. I hope you at least had fun with the games. I'm not sure if you are looking for suggestions in game play, what you did wrong, or if anything...
I was hoping I could get some hindsight on what each units are really designed for.
I've read the sticky tactica thread but I couldnt really make out much useful information.
For example, how do you deal with the Chaos Chariot, Knights, and Dragon? How do you deal with Ogres and their super pumped Lord/Heroes? How do you deal with Steamtanks?
I've tried using almost everything in the army book except Warhawk and Treekins (which are the only 2 things I dont have), so I must be using them wrong.
I'm sorry to hear that the tactica hasn't helped. If you have any suggestions on how it could be improved to make more sense etc, post in the tactic thread.
Ogres have little to no armor and concentrated GG fire takes them down. Kill one of them and most of their units will have to take a panic test. As to their characters: if the character is in a unit attack the unit in the flank or rear, or just declare a challenge with a character with AoN. If you can avoid the character and take out other units. Static combat res also is your friend. If you are playing with EG, you can guarentee what? 2-3 rank points, 1 outnumber maybe, 1 banner => 4-5 points before you add in wounds. (And if you charge in the flank most of the time you only need to kill one so they can't attack back)
Make sure to keep in mind that most of your units should not charge in by themselves.
First off, the majority of the info from the thread pinned to the top of this forum has already been migrated to the tactica section. You can find it here:
http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ad.php?t=97696 (Librarium Online Wood Elf Tactica (WiP))
Now, on to your concerns.
As for dealing with those tooled-up heroes, I tend to avoid them if at all possible. If not possible, I prefer to hit them with tons of arrows, or with characters that don't seem likely to cause damage - Great Weapon-swinging Alters or Wardancers come to mind. Get something with the Annoyance of Netlings up to those bad boys and challenge away.
As for the Wild Riders, this is just a matter of timing. Before you declare the charge, try to get your Wild Riders close enough that he is unlikely to flee far enough. Or, since you know he will flee from the charge, try to maneuver it so it causes him to flee through his own units. At that point he will either be forced to accept the charge, or risk causing panic in his friends.Glade Guard are my bread and butter against Ogres. Ogres are tough, but not tough enough to shrug off a hail of incoming fire. Make them work for that toughness, and always remember to concentrate fire in the hopes of a panic check. Psychology is the way to beat Ogres. Use Fear, Terror, and Panic to as much advantage as you can muster.My 2 units of Glade Guards did do some damage on them but were not significant enough to cause any real change to the game. My level 4 and level 2 mages were not able to do much against his 2 butchers and dispel scrolls. I pretty much got steam rolled on the 3rd turn.
As for the Spellsinger and Weaver, I would definitely leave the level 4 at home. Your magic won't turn the tide of the game. Against Ogres, it's mostly about keeping him to as few spells as possible. Go for the largest possible Dispell pool, and a scroll caddy. You'll need the numbers against Ogres. If he's running blocks of 6 and 8 Ogres, you're talking about wasted points, wasted attacks, and limited mobility. Panic one of these units, and you've got a ton of VP's running away from you.
Your second game sounds like it was mired by a lot of poor die rolls, specifically those needed for rally checks. This is regrettable, but it does happen. Whenever I see a list with 2 units at 300+ points each (general on Griffon + Steam Tank) I just see free VP's. The steam tank is a bear without a doubt, but I'm kind of surprised the Wild Riders didn't put at least a couple of wounds on the thing. Do whatever you can to get a few wounds on that thing quickly. Make him gamble by using steam points.
In the meantime, my Glade Guard have taken down so many Griffons that they're starting to be picketed by conservationists. Knock the mount out from under that General and see how tough he feels. If you've got terrain to cover your advance, glade guard can help whittle down his handgunners, too. Place your Glade Guard back a bit (7" or so) from your deployment zone and start the shooting game before he can. Otherwise, Waywatchers can hold their own on a flank or rear charge - you might even win combat. Against those guns, you have to get in his face as quickly as possible. Lean on your Ward saves as much as you can.
To me, Strangleroots is a fun little toy, but not to be counted on to dish out serious damage. You need those trees in combat. Get them as close to the enemy as possible - especially against Empire, the Terror impact can be severe.
My first piece of advice, honestly, is to drop to one tree. Two treemen seems like an easy beat-fest, but can be tricky to use, especially against opponents that can put a hurt on them in CC (Ogres) or have Warmachines to take them town (Empire). Two trees can be beyond mean, but they also give your opponent obvious targets, and put a lot of VP's in few models. Invest those points in more models and make your opponent have to give some serious thought into where your major threats are.
Just my initial impressions. I hope some of this is helpful. Sounds like a few more games will see you sorted out. Hang in there ;Y
Great advice by the other guys.
Other suggestions would be to drop your magic down to just some defence. Use the points to get more archers.
Another unit that can help is the great eagle. Move the battle budgie up to just infront of the ogres to force them to charge it. If it dies, it dies, but you have pulled a unit out of position and opened up a gap in their lines.
Mirage Arcana Podcast
The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
Thanks for the great suggestions. I've always thought the Glade Guards are somewhat useless so I always keep it at mimimum. Having to hit on 4+ and wound on 5+ against T4 armies (which is the majority of the players that I have to face) at long range, and I usually only get 2 rounds of shooting before their entire line crashes in -- along with the 1+ armour save dont really help much.
You dont suck at fantasy. Wood Elves are a finesse army and therefore take time to learn how to play correctly.
Not to offend anyone, but sounds like your opponents play pretty straightforward armies. Ogres and Chaos have a pretty simple strategy: run up and fight stuff. You cant expect that sort of simplicity from the Wood Elves.
Just give it some time. You'll pick it up.
Current Wood Elf Tourney List: 3/1/3
I've played WHFB since Nov. 2004. I win frequently with VC, often with WEs, sometimes with Dwarfs, and seldom with OK. But I've hardly played my Dwarfs and OK armies. It takes practice. I used to lose a lot with VC and then a lot with WEs. With time, I learned the armies, and it's all been good. So give it some time is my first advice.
Against OK, I deploy my GG only 7 or 8" in or so. That buys more time to shoot against them. If possible, concentrate fire against one unit. OK have next to no armor. Once you slip some wounds through, they'll start to drop.
Lots of ItP units mean that you can't flee. Maybe some Glade Riders and / or a great eagle to help with that?