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I use this tactic quite often when I’m playing with WE and it’s a killer. (Especially in >2000 pts)
It's all about the combination of Woodland ambush, Treemens and Tree singing.
I've made a "forest unit" containing of:
2 x Treeman
1 level 2 Spellsinger with calaingor's stave
6" Extra wood (woodland ambush)
This 720 pts will not be lost if you play it right and safe, still you will always be in the heart of the battle. Without loosing one single wound you'll be able to do a lot of damage. But above all you'll get a lot of strategic advantages that will benefit the WE army.
If using this tactic I place my extra wood centred in that area I’ll find most likely to be the main route where my enemy will cross the table. Here I will place the forest about 8" in front of my deployment zone.
During the battle deployment I try to make the opponent deploy his troops in this area. In the end of the unit deployment phase when hopefully the main enemy army is deployed opposing your wood and archers I place two Treemen directly behind the forest at the front edge of my deployment zone. Later on I place a Spellsinger with the calaingor's stave just beside the Treemen. (I rather use a Spellsinger since I want my spellweaever to be equipped with the wand of wych elm)
As lords and heroes I mainly choose wizard during these games since the Tree singing spell is very important.
During my first movement phase the two Treemen and the Spellsinger with the calaingor’s stave march directly into the wood (no problem since they're all forest walkers). The 6" forest makes it possible and easy for them to stay out of sight from charges, magic or missiles. Simply by moving them to the side of the forest not facing an enemy unit will usually give you the 2" needed in all other directions.
This "Forest unit" is entirely safe within this wood in almost every situation but can still do a lot of damage on the opponent. I don’t see the “Forest unit” as troops inside a terrain feature but rather like an independent untouchable monster.
If you want your "Forest unit" to pay of you'll need to move it close to your opponent. For this you'll need the tree singing spell.
Only within this "Forest unit" you will always have 6 possible tree singing attempts. (If the Spellsinger is a level 2 wizard and you use the both power dices from the common pool). You will end up with 4 attempts with a +1 to the distance and two bound spells from the Treemen.
Only the "Forest unit" itself can therefore move up to 28", and that's only one Spellsinger. The opponent will have to face your spellweaever and other wizard as well. My own experience is that, if you not totally out of luck, you will be able to move your "Forest unit" just where you want it.
Make sure you’re able to enter the wood during your first movement phase, so that you during your first magic phase can move the entire "Forest unit" across the table so the wood’s edges comes in base to base with the opponents battle line. (This is not hard to do if all your wizards work together and maybe uses some power stones).
After the first turn it's not as important to move the forest unit more then a couple of inches, this it can do by itself.
-SO WHAT CAN THIS UNIT DO-
The great thing with this is all the advantages you get without putting you "Forest unit" at any risk.
- Youcan shoot at your enemies without them being able to shoot back. The >2" wood that you always can decide to keep between you and your opponents will keep you safe while the Treemens strangle-root attack needs no line of sight.Therefore your "Forest unit" can always fire up to 20, Str 4, automatic hits every shooting phase.
- Your enemy’s magic will have a hard time reaching you while you’re out of sight. Still you may always use your tree singing to move around or harm anyone foolish enough to enter the “Forest unit”
- Your enemies will never be able to charge you, still you may choose to move a Treeman or both into a position were they easily can charge a flank or rear while the enemy units move around you
I often have a close combat unit behind the “Forest unit” wish can protect its rear, at the same time as the “Forest unit” offers the close combat unit protection from incoming missiles and magic like a shield. Together they’ll win almost any fight.
- Since the Treemen causes terror all enemy units around the “Forest unit” will have to make an Ld test or flee.
- Since the wood of the “Forest unit” contains hidden models all enemy units around it is prevented from marching.
- Since the “Forest unit” itself is a piece of difficult terrain containing two large monsters “almost” all unit choose to move around it and will be slowed down.
During the first critical turn it’s all about getting the “Forest unit” in a good position. After that it’s amazing to see the Forest of Athel loren sweep between your enemy’s units. See them flee in panic or get killed by strangled roots.
Meanwhile those archers of the WE army have plenty of time to take good care of those trapped or slowed down by the forest.
Im not sure you can fit all of that into the free forest and still be out of LoS. Two treemen are too big, I believe.
Also, putting all your eggs in one basket can hurt. Imagine what would happen if a grudge thrower got ahold of that (or the Empire rocket battery or the Scraplauncher). It would be painful.
Current Wood Elf Tourney List: 3/1/3
They can't be out of LoS in all directions but the 6" wood can give you the 2" distance needed to save you against units in specific directions, so by planning your tree singing carefully, and by moving the models within, it's almost always poosible to get away from your enemy's LoS.
About thoose guess weapons. You can't fire these at the "forest unit" sinse you need to direct the shoot toward a model within LoS. This means you can't pick a model behind either and do an overrated short guess to hit the "forest unit" instead sinse the wood terrain will keep even "large targets" behind the wood out of sight.
I can understand what you mean with the all egg in one basket but still. if something really bad comes along you can always leave the wood. Its acctually not one big unit but three modell who can all go different way. Just that working togheter day are very effective.
Still, assume for instanse that a template scatters in to the wood and do some damage. and a treeman losses 3W. They can still operate as usual.
And something I often do when playing with the WE is to give my eagle mounted spellweaver the lore of life. And a gift of life raising an badly wounded treeman back to 6W is enough to make most opponent to feel uneasy
Last edited by Cyric the Mad; November 19th, 2007 at 13:08.
I dunno... it all seems pretty circumstantial to me.
I mean, if that many of your points are tied up in one area, a smart opponent would just take out all of the other dangerous stuff on the board and just surround the unit. Because you cant be COMPLETELY out of LoS from every angle, you would eventually have to take a charge or get shot at.
And it would be a difficult tactic to use against High Elves, Khorne, or some other strongly anti-magic army (especially seeing as magic isnt what we WE do best).
Current Wood Elf Tourney List: 3/1/3
Dwarf Cannons with a Rune of Fire WILL cripple this tactics. Even at D3 wounds inflicted, they get doubled against them, and our TMs get no saves whatsoever against them.
As for me, I say it's too expensive and specific to use effectively. I can see you've thought it out very well, and I commend you for that. I should use it against my Night Gobbo opponent some time, but when he gets wise to it, it will stop working.
A problem I noticed is that the TM will not be out of LoS (being Monstrous Creatures). Just watch for that when using it.
its very cheesey and been around for a ages
Ahh, the tree surfing terror bomb. I've heard tales of this tactic, though never seen it successfully employed. First, none of the Wood Elf players I've seen are willing to sacrifice combat characters in order to get enough power dice to make this work. We're talking about a fair amount of points to use this tactic, which sounds like a lot of eggs in one basket. It could easily be a simple matter of a different play style on my part, but I don't even like fielding 2 trees in less than 3k.
Some of our more tournament-savvy members would have to comment on this, but seems to me this list is a great way to make sure you get smacked with low comp scores.
Bingo! Cyric has nailed it.
This sort of list has a couple of flaws.
1. No troops.
2. No flexibility. Due to point 1. You cannot respond to any threats that may appear.
3. Easy to neutralise. A 6" wood is fairly easy to avoid.
4. Comp hits galore.
5. Spells from the Lore of Life will hammer your unit. No LOS required.
It's a tactic that a lot of people have tried and it just doesn't work. If it has been working for you it is only a matter of time before your opponents work out how easy it is to counter.
I don't mean to come across as close minded or harsh. Far from it. I am merely suggesting that you quit while your ahead and learn to play the army a different way that isn't a "one trick pony" before your opponents cotton on to how to beat you.
Mirage Arcana Podcast
The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
Skars makes some good points. The tactic you've outlined is nasty, without a doubt. But it does seem to be of limited use. Kudos for pulling it off, though.
I'd take a second look at our combat characters, if you haven't already. Some of our character combos are just great fun.
Aren't there a number of offensive spells as well as a number of war machines that in fact do not require LoS to attack? In this case the enemy could target this cluster and have themselves a cluster *insert bad word*! Since I don't personally have anything in my army that could preform the former idea, I would just play a game of avoid and destroy the rest of the army that is ~half the size of my army. If needed, I might throw a unit to hold off / distract the forest of doom.
However, if your opponent doesn't rely on one of these methods or their army is not mobile enough to get out of the way, this could be very deadly. :C
EDIT(Then of course there are the ppl who cheat and target a unit that is infront of the wood and over guess on purpose to hit you in the trees, but let's hope no one is relying on that one!)
Last edited by trodi; November 19th, 2007 at 22:04. Reason: additional comment
Armies: Wood Elves, High Elves
Warbands Campaign 07: 1st
San Antonio Alamo GT