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Spirit sword question.

2K views 25 replies 9 participants last post by  BigPappaNurgle 
#1 ·
Now this may seem very simple to get around but i have an issue with the way that an opponent i play uses the spirit sword in games.

Having read its rules, it appears that its affects only work against multiple wound models such as characters or things like trolls etc which actauly have multiple wounds to lose.

This is where i have the problem, as my opponent consistantly argues the point that it carrys over into attacks against units. For example, his lord attacks a unit of goblins and kills one. Now this is where i would say well the goblin only had one wound to loose anyway, so the blade has no affect now, but he insists that the unit should take the required leadership test and suffer the extra wounds.

Others in my local gw when asked come up 50-50 with how it works but they are not dedicated WE players so i am seeking some experianced knowledge.

Many thanks

Saltrock36
 
#2 ·
It only effects multi-wound models. The extra wounds do not carry over into whatever unit the slain model is in. This is a big reason why the Spirit Sword is hardly ever used. The rules say that the model wounded must take a leadership test with the bearer of the sword, and lose additional wounds based on the outcome. It says nothing about models in the same unit.

-BigPappa.
 
#3 ·
Your friend is completely wrong.

Several arguements about the use of the Spirit Sword have ensued but at no stage do wounds from the leadership test "carry over" to the rest of the unit.
 
#4 ·
Attacking a ranked unit with a spirit sword can be suicide anyhow - unless you designate your attacks, each unsaved wound provokes the LD roll, potentially causing wounds to the wielder.

Last time I spoke with certainty about this weapon, I was promptly busted though. Regardless, in no way will those wounds carry over to other models. Wishful thinking on your opponent's part.
 
#5 ·
I very much doubt the wounds carry over. On the otherhand, I do think that the wounds still count for who wins combat which could be pretty helpful if he kills 3 goblins and then deal each one a couple of wounds overkill, but I'm not certain on this.
 
#7 ·
The only way I would use the spirit sword is on an Alter Highborn to take out an Ogre Tyrant in a challenge. And I would only take it to specifically take out the Tyrant, not as a part of a winning list. I just have this friend who loves his Tyrant and I want nothing more than to take it out with an elf.

-BigPappa.
 
#17 ·
A highborn's leadership is only one better than a tyrant's. I'd be worried about it. But yeah, it would be great.


Why is there so many inconclusive rules floating about Warhammer :0 Why isnt there any Erratas for Wood Elves!! We should compile a big list of questions and send them to the GW Errata department, telling them to give us a clear answer :p
Because GW blows, that's why. Even Ogres, after more than two years, got an FAQ. Dwarfs and Empire got one pretty quickly. Where in the crap is ours?
 
#10 ·
Here I bring up the question against Monster mounts again.

Do Spirit Sword pit LDR against the victim or the general/rider leadership?

The description of the Spirit Sword says the "wounded model" must roll a D6 + Leadership yadda yadda... I remember some people were saying that the Mount always use the Rider/General's leadership when test against Spirit Sword.

p.78 under Character's Leadership and p.82 under General's Leadership, it only suggested that models may use their leadership for any "Leadership-based test". Spirit Sword isn't a Leadership test, it's merely a D6 + Wielder Leadership Value <> D6 + Victim Leadership Value, it's no way involving rolling 2D6 and comparing to the Leadership value which we called a Leadership test... also it wouldnt make sense fluffwise :p .. how is your General yelling at you going to help you NOT getting your soul sucked into the Warp?

Please tell me this is true! So that I could use my Spirit Sword more confidently. :happy:
 
#11 ·
From a fluff standpoint, it makes perfect sense that the mount uses its own leadership. However, from a rules standpoint, your opponent had a decent loophole to argue. This is one of those things that just aren't worth the fight, IMO. When I'm playing against friends, we use the monsters LD . Otherwise, I either don't use the Spirit Sword, or assume it's going against the general's LD.
 
#13 ·
sigh

:?

There will always be rules problems. GW doesn't do all that much to clearify problems when they write a book to begin with (see HE book that just came out) I don't think they proof-read the stuff, and often, I'm not sure they even play the game or know their own rules well enough to have a clear definition. Also, over time definitions change and they change each time a new edition and new books come out.

You're also assuming there is a GW Errata department. Usually just go with the consensus or in a friendly game, ask ahead of time what's kosher with your friends.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I thought I'd post my results of rules study.:C

On page 82 (the General) we read that the Generals Ld applies for Leadership-based tests. It then goes on to mention an exhaustive list of what can be used. Surprise surprise, the Spirit Sword does not earn a mention.

As for the mount-hero-riding-it thing, it turns out that they can use the Generals Ld for Frenzy, Stupidity and thats about it.

The archon-farseer-guy has spoken!

EDIT: Thanks Dave for merging the posts!:).

-AFG
 
#19 ·
For the first time (maybe?), we get someone from TROLL to agree with us? :p

Quote:

"Hello

For the spirit sword , the rules do not state that you make a psychology test, therefore a monster may not use the rider leadership. You only use a characters leadership with it is a psychology test.

Kevin H
Direct Services
Games Workshop Canada
1-888-498-7655"

/Unquote
 
#20 ·
yeah, but you can get about 4 different answers from the hotline (sometimes from the same guy). They have always proved unreliable. My opinion is. Anything that gives you a chance to kill your guy, and is super expensive, is probably not worth it. There are so many other good items you can get for the price of the spirit sword, why would you bother? Unless you're facing dozens of trolls, there is no point. I would roll a 1-2 and my opponent a 5-6 if I used it in a challenge. My guy would die before the enemy got to swing. I would rather take some protective items (we're the only army with 3+wards i think) or oaken armor or something like that that makes my character better, and doesn't give him a chance to cut/kill himself (as he stumbles and falls on his own sword, the enemy sighs with resignation and says to himself, "I didn't even get to fight, how embarrasing"
 
#21 ·
Well, you still have to remember that you have to deal out a wound in order for the effect to take place, so at least you character wasn't that useless if you screw up. But the point is, its not a weapon to use against things such as dwarves with high ld, but it can get massive overkill against most monsters and it can force a bunch of extra saves. Pity the war of the souls ability thing isn't optional...

Question: If your normal attacks would kill the the enemy before the soul rend thing, do you still have to use the mind war ability? Ex: You hit a giant 3 times with the soul sword and the giant only has 3 wounds left. Do you still mind war the giant even though it now has 0 wounds?
 
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