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I'm new to posting on Librarium, although I have been a lurker for about a month now. There is a lot of good information on here. Anywho, I had a question about how to beat Tomb King in a specific situation.
I have been playing Against my friend every other weekend different point levels. This current weekend it was 1500 points, 2 weeks before that 1000. Each time he beat the snot out of me, this last time I thought I did better tactics wise but lost by more points ><
He has been running a very boring shooting army. This last game he made a single line of archers go across the entire board. (on turn 2 I lodged a wood in one of his archers hehe) He had a nice big block of tomb guard and stuck his general and Heiro in it. ( almost assassinated his Heiro on turn 1 with my waywatchers, was a gamble, but almost paid off.)
What I wanted to know is, what does everyone think I should do to combat this army? I was thinking along the lines of going with more dryads since they're tougher with a ward save? I'm not sure. Oh, and heres the list I used this week.
Wood Elf noble 136
Hail of Doom Arrow
Waywatcher lord 135
the hunter's talon
lvl 2 wizard
The Deepwood Sphere
Glade Guard (10) 120
Glade Guard (10) 120
Glade Riders ( 192 201
Wardancers (10) 183
Waywatcher ( 200
Eternal Guard (14) 168 223
Magic Banner Aech - The Banner of springtide
Any suggestions would be great, although at this point I know the magic banner with the doom arrow was a waste of time with this army. Didn't help me at all -_-
Posting individual points for models and upgrades is a no-no.
Welcome to LO.
Last edited by Skarsgard; October 29th, 2008 at 10:00.
Right... i have some suggestions, but they are to be used only occasionally, otherwis your friend wont like you (they are what is known as ''cheesy'' ) But ill leave those for a bit, lets see if we can gte a proper army first:
As an experienced TK player, WEs are one of the most irritating (in a gaming sense) armies to face, and always provide a good tactical game. Id do play more commonly at the 2K level, but it shouldnt make too much difference, as TK lists are generally seen as not reaching their full potential until they hit 2K.
My forst question to you is... does he use his Rare slot? If so, is it a Catapult?
Also if you could post a rough outline of the rest of his list, that would be good. And im gonna assume yore sticking at 1500pts for a bit?
A friend of mine plays TK, and plays them very well, so I've a bit of experience playing them.
TK are rather annoying for us in that their shooting is just as good as ours; they never suffer any negative modifiers for their bows and therefore your skirmishing waywatchers in a wood are just as easy to hit as a treeman.
If you are able to change your list, get rid of the waywatchers and get some dryads in there! Get a few units of 8 dryads in there, and get rid of your waywatcher hero for a branchwraith with a cluster of radiants. This will give you the extra punch in close combat, isn't going to run away in fear, and the branchwraith gives you the magical defence boost.
As a matter of preference, I'd swap the eternal guard and hero for wild riders or a treeman, and an alter hero. EG are just such an easy target for everything, especially catapults, and while they are good as our only anvil unit...thats not what WE are about!
A 6 strong unit of wild riders with command and war banner can decimate any TK unit, and are incredibly fast!
My favourite tactic is to hit the biggest, meanest TK unit on the flank with wild riders and suicide-dive an Alter at whichever priest/heiro is sat at the front; the wildriders do all the damage they can and deny the enemy rank bonus, while the Alter chows down on the character - even if the unit champ throws up a challenge, thats just additional combat res. PLUS, in the next combat phase, the wild riders and horses get twice as deadly, so its pretty much doom for that unit!
Spellsinger; get rid of the deepwood sphere for a dispel scroll, sit her in the middle of a wood for the whole game out of sight and spam treesinging on one dice.
Bear in mind, most of this is my opinion, so you may very well say "screw that, I love eternal guard"!
And if it carries on going badly, bring a treeman!
Herald of the Colonel; Festooned with pistols, riddled with vermin, and finger lickin' good...
His list was roughly as follows
1 x tomb prince
2 x lich priest
40 x skeleton archers
30 x skeleton archers
30 x tomb guard
8 x spear skellies
he does not use his rare slot, which always surprised me. He just shoots all day long and makes me come to him.
Oh and I realize now that Dryads would have been a MUCH better choice lol. I'm currently working on painting a batch of them ^_^
I think I will use the dispel scroll, and I will consider buying wild riders in the future, but until then I think I will stick with my eternal guard and a Treeman
Having an idea of what he's fielding would help a good deal in advising you.
Going down the list on what we know so far:
Eternal Noble- While I love the eternal guard, their kindred is not the best choice. You cannot stack their kindred benefits (EGFS) with equipment, and thus those 5 points are better spent elsewhere. "regardless of how Eternal Guard models are armed and armored..."
Waywatcher Noble - I love Waywatchers and have used them to great effect. You may want to consider taking the Pageant of Shrikes as well. Using that combination I've killed a TK general in the first turn. The rest was a game of avoidance and waiting.
Spellsinger - Illegal character. You cannot have 2 Arcane Items on the same character. You would probably be better served with a Branchwraith housing Cluster anyway. That one's opinion and take it as you will.
10 GG x2 - this is a solid core choice that many people love. I find them too stationary, especially against TK, but YMMV
8xGR - I've always had the most luck with GR in groups of 5. trimming points elsewhere and making these small units with musicians will most likely pay off down the road. They're a great unit for bait & flee or bait & die.
Wardancers - looks solid. I've seen people who field a champ and people who don't. It seems to mostly be a preference/spare points thing.
Eternal Guard - I’m not sure how you use them, but you’d probably be better served with Wild Riders. I love the EG, but I use them as a deathstar, not a small anvil. If they work well for you, good on yah. However, you may want to tailor an army around them if you’re going to use them.
Waywatchers - I love these guys. I don't know how effective they'll be against Tomb Kings, but I've always used them to great effect. No panic checks hurts a bit. I'd recommend dropping the champ. His 1 BS doesn't help incredibly and if they're in combat, you're hosed any how. I guess he provides a good shield for your Noble, but again, combat is a bad thing.
Trimming the EG down to Wild Riders and cutting out the Shadow Sentinel should provide you enough points for that second unit of GR. I’d possibly recommend 15 GR and only 10 GG.
Well, as he has no Catapult, then a Treeman is a fine choice
More importantly though, Treekin! He has virtually nothing that can take them down, so a nice big unit of 4 should do the trick.
Dryads are a fantastic choice ofcourse, a few units of 8 id recommend.
All wood force? Nah.. set up a unit or two of Glade Guard and have them shoot away, 30" range is fantastic.
Wild Riders too perhaps, 6 + Banner, Warbanner, and maybe Champ and Music. Send these into the flank/rear of skellies to sort them out for good. Although be sure to use cover to avoid the arrows lol.
Hey look! A list! Sorry I let the post idle for a while and it kept going without me.
I agree with Phoenix, Treekin are choice if there's no Catapult. WR can make short work of those skeletons. That's a harsh ammount of Archers. GR may be your friend, though I'm not sure at this point. My opponent doesn't field nearly that many.
I play tomb kings and i have never seen 70 skeletal archers in one match. it is ridiculous, always hitting on fives. my advice is to out range him or hit him with fast things. if he has no catapult then Treekin and Treemen are useful. scouts can hold the enemy up if yo go into close combat and it might slow him down for a turn or two, i just don't know WE at all.
yeah, after the first game I figured he'd use some DIFFERENT units to tie me up, but nope. Archers all the way....
My Wardancers used cover and were hammering one of those units by turn 3, I had it to half strength by turn 5 with only 2 models lost.
Looks like I need to look into getting some Treekin as well as Wild riders...
Thank you to everyone who helped =) I'll let everyone know how it goes!
You may want to consider sending in something like a WR noble kitted out to flavor. He's got a high move, decent attacks and will probably kill enough enemies that they can't land a wound on him. It'll at least bog down that unit. Possibly the whole army if he's using the undying Archer screen tactic seen elsewhere.
My preference for this would probably be as follows.
-Wild Rider Kindred
This means a lot of attacks, enough to most likely kill whatever is able to attack you. If he's using them as a wall, he's blocking whoever could assist.
Depending on terrain deployment, another option is the Moonstone. Place a forest in each deployment zone and your forest on the fields centerline. This gives you two avenues of approach.
Then again, I'm possibly the only person who'll tell you to employ a Wild Rider Noble on a Stag...
Best of luck.