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It was not a great match up, AT ALL. Warpstone trait allowed him to mess me up big time (bye bye Dryads) and what shooting they had messed up my small squads. Not having fought them before was probably my biggest problem. I went after his Slave Rats, big no-no, since the panic wouldn't cause any other units to flee (I was hoping targeting the weakest unit would help send the rest of the army fleeing), I was left out in the open for nasty counter charges and many more shots than should be legal from their so-few shooters. Plus he passed almost every LD check too. It was ridiculous.
Is Skaven a bad match up? Or did I underestimate them? Probably underestimated them...
I feel skaven are a tough army for WE, their large static res and their all magic shooting really hurts WE.
Mind you my only experiance with skaven is with one of the Top 5 players in my country.
Im yet to think of any great answers for skaven with my WE because i find that their shooting wears down my army too much to be able to beat their static res.
Also dont be fooled by the rats low ld stat as they usually have at least ld 8 units because of their + ld from ranks rule. Trying to panic slaves is pretty pointless, shooting should be directed at their clanrats at the very least.
I've never really had a major problem with them. I've beaten them more times than I've lost to them but it's close (maybe only a game or possibly two in my favour). Skaven have a crucial problem, which is that when their clanrat units start running, they tend to continue running because they lose their leadership bonus. They have a lot of nasty magic and shooting though - Warp Lightning is a huge pain in the backside, and so are guns that fire magical Warpstone. The only thing I struggle against is an army with lots of Jezzails. Those are nasty.
The key strength Wood Elves have against Skaven is that they can cause lots of fear/terror checks. Sensible skaven players will use a "checkerboard" pattern of alternating slaves/clanrats units to minimise the impact of fleeing friendlies, so you need to get a unit of clanrats to start fleeing.
I'd say the best thing to do is to concentrate your forces on one flank and keep them together in a big mob. Use your archers to pester whichever unit looks most likely to cause a big headache if it flees and try to draw fire away from your main force with a smaller "flanking" force or a Treeman just running up the centre (Treemen are quite hard to kill, even with Warp Lightning - just watch out for the cannons!).
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - 2008)
In australia, we have a proper ranking system for our tournament calender which also includes the best players of each army.
Personally I find the Treeman to vulnerable to skaven shooting, jezzails will take 1-2 wounds of it a turn, and unless you hide it behind a hill the cannon will always be able to target it.
Ive always found jezzails to be a to priority target since with their decent str and negitive AS rules almost nothing in the WE army will have an armour save, and its magical attacks so they negate the forest spirit ward save aswell. Most skaven armies ive faced have 1 unit of these usually around 8 at most aswell. If your opponent is using any more its getting pretty cheesey (I.E SAD army).
He had one unit of 10 behind soft cover, mowing my Dryads down.
Then he had those other shooty attachments with the clanrats following them around.
It was a slaughter and the "Life is cheap" rule screwed me too.
Last edited by Backdraft005; November 24th, 2008 at 02:00.
Well with your archers you should be able to take out his rattling guns, and also do a small number on his jezzails. whatever you has to shoot with you should use your archers to take them out, as shooting at blocks of skaven will be a waist, since you gona have to kill a ton before you take away a single rank bonus, as most skaven blocks are a minimum of 25 strong, at least from what i have seen.
I don't really know what your army has, but pretty much any of your troops can beat theres in close combat, a unit of 4 treekin can probably take a unit of skaven by themselves, and dryads can do a number on them as well, try to get a unit of dryads on the flank, that way you atleast start of with a +1 for cr, also glade riders can do wonders, as they can move 18'' and get into a good shooting spot to take out a rattling gun, and then take away ranks from skaven blocks, and can also charge the warp cannon from a long distance to cause them to flee.
I would suggest as busta caps has said to shoot what can shoot you back.
1 unit that i fell has been over looked is wild riders 2 small units of 5 backed up with a unit of glade riders should be able to make a unit of clan rats flee each which will hopefully have the effect of spreading panic through his army. Wild riders are fast count and rip up in combat and with a unit of glade riders to make sure they do damage.
Put them as close to the middle of his army as possible. No marching means easier pickings
Also put the Warp Lightning cannon out of action asap. Flying units are good as you only have to charge it and they HAVE to flee.
Slaves are expendable, usually used to tangle up a unit while the others swarm in. Flank them with skirmishers if you're going to attack them at all, because you'll get flanked yourself anyway.
Take out the guns as quickly as you can, then the casters.
Just send some fear/terror units around the board to keep the number of attackers around distracted. Remember they get a maximum of a +3 bonus to leadership values based on rank. Flanking negates this as well!
Wild Riders and Wardancers Seem to be the most viable option for hand to hand. Have the Dancers or Dryads screen Treekin or Eternal Guard.
Otherwise use scouts with 12" march block and Waywatchers as the cat above suggested, then shoot'em to hell with doom arrow and arrow of panic test. Use a couple of Eagles to harass Jezzails and such.
Why are there so many "W's" in the Wood Elf army?
A lot of good advice here.
Horde armies can be tough for WEs. Where do you get enough points to win? And add magic shooting, and it's not always easy.
I always bum-rush a warp-lightning cannon. As noted already, it's only reaction is to flee. With lots of fast units and/or scouts, you can usually get to it within the first three rounds.
Shoot his jezzails. They might even be worth the hail of doom arrow as it will somewhat offset their decent armor save. Keep Dryads back near your glade guard if he has tunnellers.
Warhawks are nice with hit and run.
I try to ignore slaves and go for the units with characters. That's where the points are, and with the characters gone, Skaven leadership tests become tougher.
I've done this, but a flying terror causer might be nice. Dragon, but a huge point sink, or an eagle with a terror-causing highborn on top.
I've had good results with alters, too. My best showing was when two of them charged a unit of 30 frenzied plague monks. 10 attacks cut through them like the swiss cheese they are. They lost their frenzy, failed their break test, and were subsequently run down, by just two alters. Granted, if the dice had tanked, I would've been screwed, but alters and wardancers can mow down skaven units.
Multiple, small units of Dryads will get past his shooting and do some damage. Combined charges are really important as you need to overcome ranks and numbers with wounds.
March block what you can to give your shooting time to take effect and concentrate fire. Dump it all on jezzails. Then target ratling guns. Then target clan rats with character or those nasty skirmishers they have.