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Hi everyone out there who reads this, my first ever internet posting and thank you.
This post is generaly just a throw some ideas out there and see a response any one who wants to reply feel free and i'l get back to you with my thoughts.
Just to add my current 2k list is undefeated in just under 2000 games (current listing playing against eveyrace within many stores and gaming clubes) think this sounds crazy but when played well they do just get the job done. Of these victories the majority 95% are MASSACRES in my favour with my worst ever results being 2 draws. The most common reason is not lossing models the fault i see with some of your postings out there is, the words screening unit, should not be in a wood elves vo-cab.
I have played the wooded elves since their re-release in the current edition and the old provisional listing in the annuals. So i'm slightly experienced with them.
This army is simply the greatest in the game and if played well can never be defeated. A bold statment i hear you think, but sadly a very true one.
Wood elves poses in their power the abilityy to win every aspect of the warhammer game or as some call it the five steps to victory being, movement, shooting, combat, magic, psychology.
It's amediatly obvious to all, hopefull, the shooting and the magic aspect of the wooded elf army. and if not than i will not explain it as you may and are probably playing with the wrong army.
Magic- this aspect of the wood elf army should always be done in bulk in 2000 points because lets face it the lore of ath allows our units not only to become really scarry, regenerating, and crazy, but throws out some annoying non mm at units that can pick of annoying targets people in trees and lone charcters. Secondly elves being elves arent strong or tough even with crazy war paint on to protect them and as such annoying and potentialy army defeating spells have to be got rid off.
Meaning that a arch and two spelly helpers have to be incleded, 3 scrollls and WWE just to make sure. Getting those augmentation spells on an already deadly army is essential for victory. Any opent who faces fear causing, regenerating, ples one attack wardancers who declare killing plow will agree. Very scary oppents even quite when the unit touches another unit no matter what it is.
Combat- again obvious, however i read alot of you declaring dryads and treemen, treekin and warhawk riders. I personaly feel thesse are week choices overpowered picked off or generaly failling to make thier points back when ever i watch other wooded elves players. At 2k stick to the nice simple choices of wild riders (6 strong+warbanner)and wardancers (10 strong)these units when used by vet generals should truly be feared, able to cover the board in two turns and generaly make mincemeat out of enemy units especaily the majority of the most heavily armoured infantry and cav.
Psychology- The obove units being ammune to its effects instanly demenstrate your winning power here plus causing fear or terror with approprait spells. THe rest of your armies behind these bad elves and if something is getting past to your missile line your doing something wrong. PLus charcters in wardancers gain immune and protection think before placement.
Finaly waywatchers- so underrated from the posts i have read. These invicible bad elves win matches simply from annoying your opponent plus killing blow, martch blocking from the beginning of the game and the ability to say you'l have to come into the trees to get rid of them, something every wooded elves opponet hates. Every game my two units (of 5 or 6 never any higher) get killing blow on something very important so far i've tallied up 8 chaos lords 3 from dragon back 24 assorted elf charcters 5 grey sears numourous foolish dwarf charcters lone crazed vampires trying to fly or charge my battle line goobos and orks ?( the most fun making fanatics charge within own deployment zone) and so many other things that i can no longer remember. Plus charging any toughness 3 warmachine and winning the battle with 8 atttacks not including any added charcters in bigger points matches.
I'l happily fill anyone in on unit tactics army tactics upto 4k and thoery of up to 8k but never played any higher than that. Will also give advice on magic item coms and why some items which i've seen rubbised in other postings are simply amazing.
Nice first post.
Wood Elves have one great advantage, movement.
Magic is a bit, meh. Shooting is nice but there are a lot of ItP armies these days and panic checks are out the window.
Waywatchers are very situational. I play my WE's in tourneys and don't have room in my list for them, I am a fan of eagles.
In capable hands WE's perform very well. They can struggle against some armies though.
Mirage Arcana Podcast
The "A Smart Player Will..." theory is a complete paradox. If we make an assumption that everything we do is outsmarted, then theoretically we can never win.
Welcome to the boards,
I have to say Wood Elves are indeed a very strong army, but unbeatable? Certainly not!
I also really rate waywatchers for reliability more than anything
Hey welcome, just curious what army/ies do you play against and would it be possible to see the lists you use?
Well, as much as I like the idea of the wood elves being invincible ... I don't think that against the newer armies we have that much to offer in the realms of shooting or magic dominance.
Against a magic lists our magic just seems to dwindle, with our high casting costs on regen and call of the hunt, and our lack of damaging spells, against what always seems to me an endless supply of DD on their part, and on the receiving end of upwards of 10 power dice, i just don't think we have the magic dominance we used to when our book first came out.
Shooting I would agree that we might have a slight edge except against armies such as dwarfs and dark elves who have the same bs for the most part, and get them for cheaper. although the move and shoot is nice.
As for the psychology, we do have a very big edge, as most of our units cause fear or are immune to it, so we can use that to our advantage, except on VC, DoC, and so far several WoC lists seem to be all but ItP.
And although I don't like to use them that way, but I still believe you need to have a couple of screening units to help setup your main units. It doesn't mean I throw them away far from it, I just use the unit most likely to live to help those that won't, such as using dryads to shield wildriders from massive shooting and so on.
And you are right Waywatchers are very good at killing leaders especially vampire ones , but I still prefer my anvil of a treeman .
Sorry about the long first post, first time i'd put some thoughts down.
The armies i have played against in the last 3 months, played some more than once= 4 varaitions on undead, magic heavy, wraith heavy, super combat, general.+
Empire, steam tank army with rocket support and knights, infantry hearvy multi barrel thing me bob + Chaos, dragon lord two shags chariots+lizards slann and casters block units+skaven army of shoot and magic insanity+ dark elves 2 hydra and lots assains.
In the past most tourny armies that have done the rounds classic slan, skave shooty magic, beastmen specail charcter, high pointy ears dark pointy ears orks gob fanatic black orks.
The unbeatable part. You can play wood elves badly or not have welll structured armies and lose this is very true. However knowledge and understanding of the game which in some ways is required in the wood elves army, for example rules of sight in distance visable through woods is highly important. Unit cohesion and work load movement of charcters into and out of units and the abilty to work out combat ress highly accuratly and then get lucky are highly important if coupled with intimate knowledge of ones own and other armies can lead to a wood elf army that at worst can only draw even when fully attacking, although this should be well timed. Even if a wooded elves commander is worried by a new list the elves alwys have so crazy tactic to win.
Great eagles- in the current edition i have played against them with my wooded elves, vamps and dogs of war. 5opts 3 wounds i think, books in the car, t4. one turn to move into march blocking distance 2/3 turns to charge depending on playing style afraid of scarry things. O.k i guess.
Treeman- good seasond fighter, stub, bound spell that can be cheeky ward save strangle route above avg but costly two cannon balls 285 ish points vanished, plus some bad luck.
ways- 6 strong any larger not effective. avg 1 killing blow a turn almost guarnteed to hit especialy big scary charcters on flying things. Bye bye knights, march block begining of the game, can charge war machines, mages, and get the job done. harder to hit from shooting distracts enemies, however costly and worried about big scary things, worst case run away, two cannon balls kills 48pts still cheaper than great eagle that way. only way to kill them if played right is coming in and getting them something no army seems to want to do to wood elves, redirecting alot of shooting or turning casters to see them to cast magic. Annoyance factor alone above avg, com ability low, shooting highly amusing.
Magic, the arny list is designed for augmentation and killing anything silly enough to chase the way watchers or scouts. Never to attack unless something silly like a hydra thinks it would be funny to start in a wood. Those spells that augment like crazy elves (#6 spell) can be cast on three dice and still have to acheive only 1 point above avg on the role. For example #5 spell costs 125pts for a unit you cast on a nine and once off its there till next time around
My list is static ( to allow poeple to create armies to fight it and generally see how new armies face off against it) Changes only ever come facing dwarfs out side tournies dropping scrolls and wand wych. Item swop annoy for dawnspear against skaven.
General outline minus items
Baby mage+lvl 2
Baby mage+lvl 2
wild rider noble
10 glade guard
10 glade guard
10 glade guard
10 war+full com
6 wild+full com+ warbanner always
6 wild+full com
5/6 way watchers
5/6 way watchers
Thanks for replys and welcome.
i like the comment on "smart player will" and it being a paradox however surly following the logic down the line with each player being outsmarted in a sequential manner the final result is a draw. And although a draw is not a victory nor at the same time is it a victory to your enemy. A stale mate is better than defeat and enslavement.
And when i say magic will not be explained i ment to type movement.
Last edited by Lord Yetti; April 13th, 2009 at 03:58. Reason: Forget to add change
I call BS on this post. 2000 wins, no losses? Pleas
Yeah, I have to admit I'm very skeptical too. Even if he meant 200 wins and not 2000, that's a very large number. Everybody knows that sometimes the dice don't cooperate, and for large numbers of games you're going to lose at least a hand full to luck.