Welcome to Librarium Online!
Hya, I ve started my WE army last year b/c 2 of my friends were already playing the game and the kinda lured me into it. I love the WE, totally suits my style of playing, great models, very tactical and unforgiving on errors etc. I ve played roughly less than 10 2000points battles now, lost the first 2 dramatically. After that.. started to read up on forums.. Adapted my playstyle/tactic and voila... i started winning... Now for my question:
My last 2 battles were VS the Orcs and goblins army of one of the two friends.. THe last match i slaughtered him, i had 1600 points of my army left approx.. and he had 0 points left after round 5. (my army consisted of a genuine mix, so no shooty heavy or something like that) He started complaining about how bad his army was due to the rule book etc...
Is he correct? are Orcs and Goblins that nerfed? or is he just a sore loser?...
I valid all your input thanks,
ps, seriously, WE a great army, i cant imagine myself playing any other army tbh, if only our opponents realise that we can not simply charge everything and most of the times use running/tactical retreat as a valid way of playing.. instead of getting sneered upon for sometimes avoiding combat throughout the game.
Last edited by Foreststalker; August 12th, 2009 at 10:50.
Welcome foreststalker. As for the relative strength of armies, there is always going to be some debate. In general though, wood elves are normally considered to be in the middle tier, and orcs and goblins in the bottom teir. Both near the top or there respective tiers though.
I would tell your friend to try to make a harder list to face your balanced wood elf list. The two things that he could use that wood elves could have trouble with are heavy magic, and fanatics. Or you could go for a softer list, for example a list based around eternal guard and combat troups.
Hope this helped,
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
thanks for a quick reply,
yeah i ran a unit of EG /20/ against him in other battles, but somehow it always feel like a point sink, either they dont see combat, or they still get slaughtered and are just not flexible enough (hence u call it a softer list probably
thanks for the input i ll throw this in next time i see him.
"Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".
Yeah, O+G is one of the weakest lists, and wood elves can be particularly hard on them because, with a few exceptions, O+G rely on combat, have relatively poor maneuverability, and are very unreliable (animosity + low ld panic and terror checks).
I wouldn't say O&G are a weak list, just completly unreliable. The effectiveness of almost every single choice they have is random and can blow up in their face, or completly devistate their opponet. Their one spell has the potential to completly eliminate the enimy force in one phase (highly unlikely, but possible) Thats why I love the army so much, even though i don't play it I sometimes wish I did.
If your friend can't enjoy watching his own troops tear themselves apart, then he really should try something else.
I run WE and O&G. I picked O&G not to win, but to have fun. They really are a goofy army and lots of great models and and units to pick from. The fluff is pretty fun also.
Maybe you guys should play each others armies for a few games. See how that works, it does kind of blow to get your ass handed to you game after game.
A buddy of mine plays O&G and I love playing with and against them, because anything can happen. Hes had great flanks setup and i thought i was screwed but he failed the animosity tests .....but hes also had some really ugly magic go off and lay waste to a large portion of my army, it was like foot of gork or something that could continue or end up stomping on his own army. No game against O&G seems to be the same...but walker is right its never fun to get stomped every game.
Unfortuantly to play O&G well requires a very skilled player who knows the army inside and out, and also a bit of good luck.
Unfortuantly as previously said they suffer from some rather crippling problems, animosity being the biggest one, its just so game changing that it can totally ruin your game in one vital turn leaving several of your unit stranded and vulnerable.
Their magic lores are nice however, but once again animosity means if its failed you cant cast spells, the only way around it is to either put your shamans on chariots (expensive) or have them join war machine crews (which are often up the back and wont always have the line of sight you want), and also their horrible miscast table. I do however think that a very magic heavy O&G list can be devistating if its designed properly, but its rare to see people go in that direction.
Orcs and Gobos are not great, but i wouldnt say they are much worse, if at all, than woodelfs.
A magic heavy O+G Army will probably cause you some problems. They have very effective lores imo.
Also, if he times his WAAAGH! right he can do some serious damage to you that turn with lots of 6s on his animosity rolls.
If he takes fanatics he needs to rethink them imo. Fanatics are incredibly easy to bait and render useless by wood elves. A 50 pt great eagle can lure out many of them, and if the WE can get a unit within 8" of the fanatic and in a wood, the fanatic will simply be destroyed.
His best bet is Magic, but i think he is also, as you stated, a "loser." If he cant play the list he should pick a new army. VC, Chaos, or High Elves should give him some nice cheese to win with. Theres nothing worse than a player who loses and makes excuses, more or less, removing any satisfaction you got from winning.
Also note that, although O+G require a skilled general for the army to be effective, wood elves do also. So maybe you are just better than him and he should admit defeat, and try to improve.
Last edited by Tampac66; August 14th, 2009 at 15:50.