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Well i played my second battle with wood elves today and I lost against dark elves. It was a close run thing and I made a major mistake which probably cost me the game but ah well.
Basically my army consisted of
1 High Born Great weapon Alter Kindred, Arcane Bodkins Bow of Loren and Stone of the crystal mere.
2 Spell Singers, various minor items and scrolls
1 Noble + Moonstones of Hidden ways and Wardancer Kindred.
6 Wild riders
My enemy had
Master on Manticore
Level 4 wizard
Level 2 wizard
20 spear men
20 Black Guard
10 Crossbow men
The battle was incredibly bloody and shifted back and forth constantly.
His Hydras made a meal out my units as did his manticores.
On the plus side my glade riders and waywatchers killed his level 4 wizard first turn while my wardancers carved through 2 and half regiemnts,
My tree man also saw off a unit of spear men and crossbows.
In the end he won because most of my army was destroyed while he had his manticore master both hydras half his black guard and his level 2 wizard still around.
The Big mistake
1st forgot to declare a charge on one of his hydras with my treeman!
2nd Forgot that my Glade Guard were Strength 4 within shortrange which would have killed his maticore and then prevented my High born from dying in the late game. (damn it).
Also Wild riders did nothing except die.
So basically is my list any good and are wild riders worth taking?
Last edited by Visitor Q; August 20th, 2009 at 08:16.
Wow, I can probably guess all the magic item combo's he had in that list. Dont feel so bad, that isnt a friend making DE list.
How are you using you wild riders? I almost always run 6 wild riders with the warbanner. If you get flank charges off with them they are devestating.
Wild Riders are very much worth taking, but don't expect them to win combats against powerful enemies on their own. They are invaluable for flank charges and taking away the enemy's rank bonus in particular. One of the best ways to take out a hydra is to charge it in the front with a treeman and then in the flank with Wild Riders =)
Also, whenever you take wild riders I suggest a 6 man unit with the war banner magic standard. Those extra two points of combat res (combined with US12 fear causing charge) can be very helpful.
Beyond that, I would recommend trimming down the wardancer unit. I know it performed well, but 12 is way too big. Because they are skirmishers and don't benefit from ranks you only get any benefit out of the models you can get into base to base, and, well, you won't get 12 in base to base. I think 9 total models in the unit is the most you would want (in this case 8 men plus the noble), and I usually field them in units of 6-8.
Also keep in mind that your characters do not have to be wardancers to join a wardancer unit. Wardancer kindred is an expensive upgrade and puts a lot of restrictions on the equipment a model can take. Just a normal noble can be very nice in a wardancer unit, especially given that he can take a great weapon which gives the unit a bit more pop against tough targets.
Last but not least, take some solace knowing that your opponent's list was way cheesier than yours. 6 Magic Levels + Terror Causing Flier + 2 Hydras + Blackguard Deathstar, while not the cheesiest DE can muster, is certainly a very powerful list (depending somewhat on the magic item choices -- if he took the Standard of Hag Graef (ASF) with the blackguard, Pendant of Khaeleth (inverse ward save) on the master etc. then yeah, definite cheese). The only way you can match this kind of thing from wood elves is a two treemen + bsb list, in my opinion. You CAN win with a less competitive list, of course, but if you want to have a kind of "equal cheese" battle, that's what you have to go for. And even then he still probably out-cheeses you... two hydras are rough!
Not to worried by the cheese factor. As I said I made a number of mistakes both tactically and rules wise.
Remembered another just now actually, The Black guard should have run as they took their stubborn Ld off the Master which you can't do with stubborn (either unmodified Ld or the 12" Ld from the general)
I might give the wild riders another shot then.
I take the Wardancer noble because the model is a wardancer.
12 probably is to big generally but I knew they would be a priority target and operating deep in enemy lines for this battle so i wanted to give them a bit of bulk.
I agree about slimming down the WD unit. The most I'd run is 9, but that's pushing it. I really prefer two units of 6 or 7 with musicians. I most often go without Wild Riders. I prefer my wardancers by far.
I also don't like 5 waywatchers. If I use them, I use them in large numbers, 10. That can really put the hurt on the enemy in a major way. 5 can't contest a quarter when the game is ending, they can't get many kb's, and they panic more easily.
But I also don't run a treeman most of the time. I really go guerilla with my WEs, using flyers, lots of skirmishers, and plenty of shooting.
Against DEs, I avoid Black Guard and shoot everything to ribbons. I'll toss dryads at the hydras.
Good advice. I was talking to a GT player last night and he was extolling the virtues of Wild riders compared to Glade Riders.
He also said 12 wardancers was too much (13 if you include the noble).
So far they have worked pretty well in the three battles I have played as a really nasty shock unit. So I might give them another go before experimenting with two smaller units.
I played a 1500pt battle vs Empire last night where I took;
x2 units of 6 Glade Riders
x2 units of 10 Glade Guard
1 Alter Noble
1 Wardancer Noble
I knew my opponent didn't have any wizards so I didn't bother with a spell singer.
My opponents army was fairly appalling
20 handgunners (all one regiment)
10 spearmen (not a detachment)
1 steam tank
1 captain on pegasus
1 captain with knights
1 warrior Priest.
Opponent got first turn and killed a glade rider with his cannon then shot at my way watchers and somehow managed to kill one (despite needing 6's then 6's to hit)
My waywatchers wounded the Pegasus first turn while my 30 odd long bow shots killed 8 or 9 handgunners. My Treeman marched into a wood out of sight of his Steam Tank forcing it to stay in its corner taking pot shots at my line.
My wardancers hungback and a bluffing game about whether I had the Moonstones or not began.
Pegasus flew near to my waywatchers and his Knights did some manouvering basically his line completly stalled.
His cannon did a bit more damage.
In return my long bows pretty much finished off his handgunners and my way watchers did another wound on his pegasus.
Next turn my Treeman marched out to the flank of his steam tank and tried to a get a lucky strangle root attack off at it. Did nothing.
His captain on pegasus charged my tree man and was killed.
Steam tank retreated onto his far corner and took shots at my treeman but didn't hit.
By this point his warrior priest had charged and killed the waywatchers but had overrun into LOS of my archer line but his 1+ magic armour saved him from 20 odd shots.
I revealed my wardancers did have the moonstone and I appeard in the centre of his lines.
Warrior Priest charged my wardancers and was killed with killing blow by my hero. My alter and wardancers charged his knights and I cut them to ribbons thoguh didn't break them (3 knights and the captain left). My opponent conceeded as he only had a few knights and the steam tank left on turn 5.
I lost half a unit of gladeriders and the waywatchers.
Well played! I think it was key that you recognized that you could actually outshoot him and held back instead of just charging in. If you hide your treeman like you did, his cannons just aren't that great as you lack big ranked units for him to kill.