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Let me preface this question by saying, I'm looking for input and dialogue. This is NOT a whine-session from a butt-hurt WE player that got his tush kicked by another army. I don't even play Wood Elves - I've just started playing WHFB, and i've got a WoC army I'm very very happy with so far.
Now that the disclaimer is out of the way, I'll elaborate on the reason for my question:
Being new to WHFB, I was hanging out at the local GW store, playing a little 1k tryout fight with a friend to make sure I wanted to play WoC before I spent a bunch of money. My mind still being open to the possibility of playing other armies at the time before I committed my limited budget, I was looking for input on models, tactics, play-styles, and competitiveness. I have a sizable Necron army, and feeling a little forgotten by GW on that front, I didn't want to pick "that" army in WHFB as well.
So, I was asking around, and someone brought up the idea of Wood Elves. Some people talked about the ability to move forest terrain pieces (and everything in them), which sounded cool, and the ability for certain units to teleport from one group of trees to another on the table. That, however, was where this particular group of players' list of virtues of the Wood Elves stopped. Though they didn't get into too many particulars (neither would I have understood them at the time - I've learned a lot about the game since, but they were still speaking Greek at this point) but the basic idea was, "Wood Elves suck. They get their butts kicked by EVERYONE."
So, I ask openly and without predjudice, is this true? How do people like their Wood Elves? Do you find they're competitive against many other armies? Are there armies that just seem to be destined to destroy you / fall beneath your wrath EVERY time you play them?
I've used wood elves for ages, and i really don't think they "suck". I think they're more on the other end of the scale. They've got good range, combat, OK magic, lots of speed. I don't understand why people would be saying this, as there are so many worse armies that WE. In the tier system, they normally come bang in the middle, or even higher.
Hope this helps
The wood elves are an annoying army. Now I say that not as an insult, rather that it is one of their main tactics. To be annoying, to run around your opponent peppering him with bow fire while all he can do is pivot to the annoyance unit or ignore it and go for something static. Treemen are also very nasty along with the rest of the wood spirits. There only downside is because they have so many skirmishers and archer units, they have very little in the way of static combat resolution.
A decent mid-ish tier army that if you like the play style go for it. But if you have limited funds it may not be the best choice for you as dryads I believe are their only plastic figure.
Wood Elves are a good army, though competing with "top tier" armies seems more challenging with each new army book released. Still, I've managed to place in the top 10 in every Indy GT I've attended, though it's grown frustrating as I have to slog through Daemon and VC armies over and over to do well.
WEs compete exceptionally well in shooting and movement and do well in combat, if you're smart about it. WE magic doesn't hold a flame compared to what else is out there, but you can mount a decent defense and last long enough for shooting and combat to go in your favor.
Building a strategy around tree singing is too one-sided IMO. WEs rarely have enough power dice and bound spells to pull it off successfully. You might get it off once per turn, and what good is that? I'd rather not sink points into wizards and expensive treemen to try and move trees once or twice a magic phase.
Wood Elves still play unique compared to the other armies. Our most valuable troops are our most mobile. Fast cavalry, skirmishers, and flyers harass the enemy, bait and flee, avoid combat, march block, and generally pester the enemy. I play a delay game where I shoot the daylights out of people, hold off on combat until I'm sure of victory, and do my best to deny the enemy VPs.
One common means is to use lots of small units so that points are dispersed. Most of my units are worth 100 to 140 points and not much more. My general flies around on an eagle trying to stay alive and use arcane bodkins to pick off good targets. Spellsingers hide in terrain or bounce between units. Archers move forward, back up, run into the woods when possible.
It's challenging but you'll match well against foot slogger armies, and you have range to outshoot shooty armies (but don't get too cocky about that), and some armies will really be tough (immune to psych, unbreakable stuff that shrugs off your shooting).
Minor victories are more common than major victories. You play for kills, for table quarters, for character kills, and the like. It's definitely a finesse army. We have no deathstar. We have no equivalent of a hydra (sorry Treeman, you don't stack up compared to the new baddies coming out). Opponents can find WE armies frustrating, and sometimes I take my WoC for friendly games just so the other guy can have something to get in and fight with.
I love them,though, and have played them since they were released in 2006. I still think the models are some of the best fantasy ones that GW produces.
Rep for DavidWC09.
You can also fairly easily convert Wild Riders from glade rider sprues (you can mix in some corsair or dryad bits to make them look nastier) and treekin from Dryad Sprues with green stuff.
My own wild riders were made for a Drycha list. They're spider-centaur spirit thingies. Sure, they might not might not go over to well in a GT, but it works just fine where I play at.
Additionally, I converted my wardancers to be changeling things by mixing glade guard sprues with dryad bits.
With a little creativity, plastic can go a long way in a WE list.
Pretty much the only things you can't convert are treemen and fliers. Although... if you wanted, and if your opponents let you, you could take the spite-bits from the Dryad sprue, and put them on top of some tree-bits on larger base and claim that it's a flying host of spites, to represent a "great eagle" of a sort.
It really depends on what your opponents will let you get away with. Hmm... I want to convert that now, just to see what it looks like. (I should have enough winged spites after assembling 40 dryads... )
Last edited by Gnomish.Id; January 11th, 2010 at 18:15. Reason: new thought
Wood Elves do not suck - Once you have the hang of them. Too many new players will try out an army, get shot down surprisingly quickly because they have a particular style or do not adapt to the Asrais' strengths before it's too late.
My boyfriend stopped collecting Wood Elves because after almost a decade he was too good with them and hadn't lost a fight once he had mastered his list.
There are Wood Elf Players, and there are Players Who Have Wood Elves - tactical adaptability and natural tactical instinct can make Wood Elves suck beyond belief.
Fantasy: Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Beastmen and Tomb Kings.
LotR: Misty Mountains and Rohan
I hate most of the WE model range, except for the GG and Dryads, I don't know why I started them.
Apart from the fact that they absolutely rule!
I love their guerilla style of play and always wanted to play them ever since a friend bought the book well over 10 years ago.
You have to know how to play with them, you can't really compare them to any other army.
Nothing more to say, DavidVC09 said it all.
And he's one of the gurus when it comes to WE ....so Ill leave it at that.
I agree with 8people. I lost with my WE a few times while I was starting out, but once I'd perfected my list, I haven't lost, and I have played top tier armies like daemons and vamps. I think a major part of WE is perfecting the list thats right for you. Also the LOTR ent is a great model to use in place of a treeman.
Wood Elves do not "suck" at all.
Just to put some of the ideas here... and I may repeat what some others have said...
No penalty for movement in woods. No shooting penalites for moving around. Free 6inch wood to place on our side of the table in pitched battles. No units ever over 144 points for me... lots of stuff that can be used all over the field with little loss when I do lose something/get pinned down. My typical army ends up only having 3 units that cannot move 9(hence march 18 ) or higher.
You can easily field an all core army that is able to keep up/compete with alot of/most other armies. Dryads with S4, T4, 2Attacks at 12 points and they skirmish with immune to pysch and cause fear? YES PLEASE. Glade guard - M5, Move through woods, St 4 shots at short range with a 30inch longbow. YES PLEASE. Glade Riders, 9M with Fast Calv rules and a long bow. I usually run 3-4 groups of Glade Riders and I never get in combat till I want to be. It annoys and takes your opponent out of "his" game.
Warhawk riders... move 20 - charge in, nail a mage/bsb/unit, then choose to fall back(and auto rally after they stop falling back) and they can't even chase you, rinse and repeat.
Waywatchers - killing blow shots at 15inch and under. Do not need to maintain minimum distance when scouting. 2x weapons for 2 attacks. Cloaks are a pain for others as well with a further -1 to hit ontop of being a skirmisher.
Wardancers - people who have played wood elves know to shoot these guys(skirmishers so again -1 to hit them) or to avoid them at all costs in combat - especially if they get the charge.
Treeman... Umm yeah... Awesome - especially an ancient with Annoyance of Netlings... so you have a S6,T6,6wound creature who in challange can only be hit on 6s. 3+Scaly Skin, 5+ward... against anything but magic - just like dryads save. Stubborn on a 8 (or 9 if the lord). With a BSB by them... they aren't going anywhere soon.
EG and Treekin can also be nasty unit choices if you build the rest of your force to them.
The Thing that I love the most when I tell people I am bringing wood elves is... they have no idea if I'm going spirits for major close combat, lots of glade guard for range, or a Sethayla list to make you run in circles. About the only thing Welves cannot do well in my opinion is a Magic Heavy army. Well, rather before the over the top newer lists that have come out - vamps getting 20pd, Demons getting mages as a core unit? WHAT?, other types like that the magic is still useable. Treeman come with bound power strength 3 treesing. Which is a nasty spell in that the FAQ dictates the range to move trees is 18 inches, but the damage power of it is not limited in range.
I haven't even touched the concept of a character who has movement 9, then 5 S3 shots that will hit on 2s almost all the time with a 30 inch range and if they wound you have no armor save. Oh, and that character has 6 attacks on the charge with St6 who also ends up having an 18 inch charge and because of the fact that he is a single model he's -1 to be hit by ranged shooting and has 360 line of sight to charge whatever his heart desires.
A character who can snipe out characters in units usually hitting on a 3+ usually who can shoot his bow and then use a spite to do the same thing... and thus having the ability to 1 turn kill mages without even having to risk himself or a unit.
And thats just 2 character builds quickly off the top of my head. Unless the WoC player in store brings his lvl 4 gateway prince or his lvl 4 slanesh mage on a dragon I have no problem dancing around most of his units and forcing a draw as the "worst" case scenario for me. WoC need heavy calv, light calv and then either the prince or the slanesh mage in my opinion to win often against virtually anything - the rest of their list just looks nice but cannot pin down a properly played wood elf list. They are to straight forward an army with little to no surprise. Wood Elves on the other hand have more surprises than most people ever see coming. 1 Skirmishers sticking out the back side of a wood for the rest of the unit to charge out of the woods at the guy is always a nasty thing on someone not expecting that.
Once you know what your doing with them I'd argue they are one of the nastiest lists for people to have to play against. The problem is they are T3(T4 dryads/T5 Kin/T6 trees) with virtually no save, so anyone who hasn't played them for a LONG time to figure out the play style says they suck... anyone who plays them, and plays them well, will tell you otherwise. Sure, you don't massacre people - but a solid victory is still a win. Avoid till your sure of the win and ... then you win. We win games in the movement phase and ranged phase - mainly the movement phase though I'd argue, and that is just a concept most other people have no clue about - nor can their armies do that. Its fun. Lots.
I could go on for quite some time... but I also need to have dinner with the wife! If you'd like anything else about them just PM me and I could go on for a long time why I like them more than my HE, Lizzies, Tomb Kings, Brets, and O&G.
edit side note - all the core (minus EG with a lord in the army - they are metal and a special choice otherwise) is plastic. Everything else is metal. But you could just as easliy use Cloaked GG with some extra weapons glued on as waywatchers if it made your heart happier. And as stated - Wild Riders can be converted using Glade Riders only, Glade Riders with Dryads, Dryads with Wood Elf horses... so you can use that technique too - though I very RARELY field Wild Riders.
Last edited by Boskie43; January 11th, 2010 at 22:33.