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I would like to hear some of you guys experiences, when it comes to facing skaven.
The thing that threatens me the most atm is the Hell Pit Abomination, The Screaming Bell and his dreadened Thirdteenth spell.
Any ideas on countering them?
Yeah skaven is a big terror right now for us.....theyve always been a terror but the new book and the presence of the 8th edition horde rules make them even scaryer.
My tactics for all 8th edition armys right now is THROW A TREEMAN AT IT. I dont really think our book is as strong as many other books right now, high elves kick our butt still, dark elves got extreme magic and hydras with 40 attacks, dwarves got insane warmachines, empire has toughness 10 steamtanks......we didnt get really any boosts at all.
Againdy skaven in the new warhammer scene im having alot of problems. Skaven spear warriors fight in three ranks and the abominatione ats everything in its path, they have amazing magic. Ive been countering the abomination by focus firing my glade guard at them and then trying to kill the rest of it with big blocks of treekin. Thats all ive found to stop it. The rest of skaven is pretty cake though for wood elves. Just tarpit the unit with a treeman, and then flank and finish off with wardancers or dryads. Or focus fire the glade guard at one unit and then combo charge the other one with wardancers and dryads and treemen. The wardancers have been really good to me against skaven hordes because 12 wardancers can fit onto the front of a horde unit of skaven, 12 wardancers is 36 attacks hitting on 3's and wounding on 3's. If the unit was weakened befor the wardancers charged they usualy fly right over them.
I play against Skaven with my wood elves and I table them by turn 4 at 2.5k and 3k points.
I use a Lore of Life spellweaver and a Lore of Beasts Spellweaver. (L3) (just a level 4 beastweaver at 2.5k)
If I am lucky I get my 2 spells - the 6th Lore of Life spell Dwellers Below and Lore of Beasts Amber Spear.
Those two spells will destroy an entire unit of skaven per round. Yes, they can have a L4 Grey Seer but that doesn't do them a lot of good when the Amber Spear slams into their block of 40 clan rats and does D6 wounds to the bell. Combined with glade guard shooting and Treekin hitting on the sides. Skaven fold like nothing. Their leadership is terrible and to date they are the only army I've had practically run off the board after a Hail of Doom Arrow ninja strike in turn 1 leaving a Hell-Pit and a Screaming Bell unit. .. awkward.
Ideally, you want to focus all your firepower on one unit and let panic and your heavy infantry do the rest. Magic is a good tool to use but too reliable to bank your entire strategy on it. I recommend using 6 Treekin, Dryads and lots of shooting. Manuever to flank which you can do if they are using huge blocks of troops and annihilate them from the side. Remember - you don't get supporting attacks on a flank or from behind. You can pick your battles.
mmm... i'm a little worried about the storm banner... -2 to hit ... and the doomwheel worries me a little to... it's bolts are a pain in the ass for our units... and treekin or treeman just fall to the multiple wounds of this...
I play Skaven and Wood Elves are just a poor matchup amongst evenly skilled opponents with even armies. The thing is, none of Wood Elves usual tricks work on us. We are LD10 with a re-roll in a good list and always Steadfast on you, realistically. So close combat against blocks is a poor idea, particularly Slaves because you will lose more than you kill.
The key is killing the characters. The general and BSB make Skaven go, everything else is to draw your Magic and shooting or protect the characters. Now, Skirmishers can weave through the blocks and charge whatever is carrying characters, just don't challenge and direct attacks at them. Magic can sometimes work but a Skaven army will almost always have a Lvl4 and know what needs to be gotten rid of or avoided, like Dwellers or any big damage spell. Another option is the Sniper Noble, who will likely down a 2 wound character over a few turns. Our BSBs are usually not defensive so if you can get a good position, pew pew away.
Like I said, it's just a bad match up and a uphill battle. All your units are fragile or expensive and it's easy to pick what needs to be tied up after ranged casualties are inflicted. Treeman and Treekin get hurt by Crack's Call and almost all our shooting, Scorch and Warp Lighting do big damage to all the infantry and even Slaves can outfight some of your units in combat.
I'd say keep your movement advantage, look for opportunities to kill things that matter and play a very defensive, points denying game.
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i'm not worried bout infantry... infantry es very easy to deal with... spells to... we have an extra dispel dice, and re rolls all our dispel atempts... but there's nothing that prevent the doom wheel from shooting... and those damn rays do D6 wounds each... no skaven infantry have a chance to a treemen or treekin, but the wheel eat treemen and treekin... the way I think it can work is an alter lord... sword evry hit is a wound, and then leadership tests compared = bye wheel... but theres another one wheeling around and preventing us from move freely, and they only cost 150pt...
Thanks for the discussion guys, i will try a few things i read in this thread.
If you have a beastweaver, you could throw a spear at the weel, and it will probably fall to it.
Here are my suggestions as a current Skaven player and also a wood elf player.
First of all, the Amber spear is crap against the screaming bell as it has MR2 and will get a 2+ ward save on the seer and the bell, dont waste your time with this rubbish.
Now, things you really should be scared of are the Hellpit and the Warp Lightning cannon. The Hellpit for obvious reasons is nasty, and unless your taking the flaming banner your going to have to kill it by using a large amount of attacks, focusing shooting on it early to get it down to 1-2 wounds then charging it with dryads can work quite well.
The cannons (and lets face it, in most cases you may be facing 2 WLC's) are a massive threat to any treeman or treekin, these things can quite quick 1-2 shot these units off the table, scouts or WW's are the best option to deal with these IMO, though eagles or fast cav can also do it pretty quick if you can get there.
I wouldnt worry too much about 13th spell honestly, Its not worth the risk of casting on T3 unarmoured elves. Scorch is a much more effective spell and is something to be afraid of with its flaming attacks.
Also be aware if the skaven player has taken the plague lore instead, as wither (-1 T) and plague (T test no AS) can quickly run riot through a WE army.
I played a few games against a skaven buddy of mine and he doesn't like the plague lore because nearly every spell is at 12" castrange. And he's saying that when he uses the plague, it can very well detroy also half of his models.