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I see lots of lists and guides/tacticas and stuff suggesting that you get a great weapon, but why would you waste your epic initiative of 9 on a great weapon????
Req-ex's Raiders- Lizardmen
Jorj's Southern Strikers- Lotr Uruk-hai
Because all the tacticas and lists were made for 7th edition. They haven't been updated for 8th.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
so what is the best set for the alter in 8th?
That is for you to find out, no one knows yet, experiment and find one you like.
That means Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest-son-of-a-bitch in space!
Disclaimer: I have just recently started playing WHF again after about ten years. Even back then, I had only played a handful of games so I'm not very knowledgeable but I'll do my best to answer your question.
Like you, I read the army builds at this website and others. They nearly always included an alter noble with Hail of Doom Arrow, Hunt o/t Helm, lt armor, shield, & great wpn. So I used the alter noble to find out why it is so highly recommended.
I play against a Brettonian player. His knights typically have a 2+ armor save with a 5+ ward save. I really need to be able to punch through that armor. The noble's str 4 attack is ok but it is so much better beefed up to six. A str 4 attack causes his armor save to go from 2+ to 3+. Even with five str 4 attacks on the charge, I would be lucky to get one or two wounds pass the armor and ward saves. A str 6 attack makes his saving throw go from a 2+ to a 5+, giving me a better chance of actually causing losses. I'm giving up the opportunity to go first for the chance of actually causing damage. Something else, neither my opponent nor I know the official ruling for when a unit equipped with great weapons thats charging actually strikes. Do they go first or do they go last? We compromised with a house rule that says the charging unit using great weapons strikes using initiative to determine combat order.
Anyways, I don't think the alter is chosen because of the initiative 9. I think it is chosen for the movement 9. This puts five str 6 attacks in the opponents backfield or an arrow with basically a range of 39 inches nearly anywhere you want it. As was pointed out, this was a popular choice prior to 8th ed.
In 8th, charging does NOT affect striking order anymore as it did in 7th ed.
Because of this, characters using Greatweapons are not so good because even if they charge, they strike last. Because of thi Alter Nobels LOSE the benefits of Initiative 9 if they take GW.
I dont even take Alter Nobels anymore, I used to take 2-3 with GW's and multi charge them, doesnt work now.
The only one that still works is the Alter with Bow of Loren and Arcane Bodkins, although I find I can spend 250 points much better else where these days..
- AJ -
- Wood Elves + Orcs & Goblins since 2009 -
I should have separated my last sentence into a different paragraph in my post from above so that it would stand out more. But my last sentence makes the assumption that the reader would know not to use the great weapon in 8th.
Thanks for clarifying why the standard alter noble is not used by players using 8th ed rules. I think your post most fully answers Leethoof's question.
I currently use the standard alter noble and I use an alter lord with the Bow of Loren and Arcane Bodkins combination that you had used.
A young player (still in high school) and I recently began playing WHF weekly at the local game shop. Paraphrasing what he said, "My dad bought me this Brettonian Army and rulebook when I was a kid." We invited another player to play in our weekly game. He said that he had relatively recently bought the 7th ed book and that no way he was going to buy the 8th ed. book. We told him that was ok because we were using 7th ed. The following week there was a rule dispute between the kid and I, so, the three of us broke out our rulebooks. The new guy's book looked distinctly different than ours. We were quite surprised to learn we had been using 6th ed rules! We still use the 6th ed rulebook and probably will continue to do so until the young player buys a new rulebook.
But, if someone shows up with a 7th ed rulebook, I'll break out my 7th ed rulebook and play.
And if someone shows up with an 8th ed rulebook, I'll break out my lizardmen army and play.
Last edited by Sidewinder; December 29th, 2010 at 01:02. Reason: improve clarity of post
removed post because it was off-topic
Last edited by Sidewinder; December 29th, 2010 at 01:03.