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some time ago i was interested in collecting wood elves and went as far as getting the book, some glade guard and some glade riders , but i was turned off rather quickly, everywhere i was told things like "What? Wood elves? They suck." and "8th ed. really hates those guys" and "Wood elves? For a first time player? i wouldn't recommend it' the list goes on and on (thinking about it now these people didn't supply much evidence), seeking a bit of honor for my beloved woodies i told myself "Right I'll wait for the new army book comes out, hopefully things will be better and then I'll really show 'em" i said this being convinced on some rumors (a bit silly of me). during the "waiting period" i started collecting Beastmen (yes, call me two face if u wish) to satisfy my hunger for WHFB.
So my real question is; are the rumors solid? will a be waiting a while or what? or is worth ditching the VERY small army of Beastmen i have (for now, maybe) and making the woodies work for me? i might ad that it wasn't all apposing players that turned me off most said "just go trees with glade guard and spell weaver support" i didn't really wanna abandon the elves by just going mainly trees.
thanks in advance Lightning
Last edited by Riding_Lightning; December 7th, 2011 at 07:52.
you will be waiting a little bit longer (couple of months at the least, tons of other candidates have been lined up before us) but don't let that turn you off. With the right mindset and advice when making your army list it's possible to win with any armybook or codex no matter how old, they might have been right about it b eing an odd choice for a first timer but it'd not a bad one, if you can get good winning with an army in it's time of weakness you'll find other more modern armies far easier.
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I started with wood elves, so don't let anyone else fool you into thinking that you shouldn't. Just expect to loose a few (or a lot) when you first start until you get into the swing of things and in the end, I think you'll be a better general overall. That being said, bunker down and prepare for the long haul. Wood Elves are at the bottom of the barrel at the moment.
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Continue with your beastmen and aim for at least 2000pts before jump ship. If nothing else you will become a better player using beastmen whilst waiting for WE, which if rumours are true, are behind, VCs, Dwarfs, and Even WoC. When you consider that your looking at 2-3 fantasy armies each year, you could be waiting some time.
WE are not a massive selling army compared to those i have mentioned, and they need an awful lot of work doing to them, in fact its a total rewrite for them to work in 8th ed, so GW are likely to pump out some easy money spinners like VC/Chaos/Dwarfs/Even Empire have been metnioned/ before you see WE.
Forge World are meant to be producing a follow up to there Warhammer Forge, Throne of Skulls book, and it is meant to be centrerd around Brets, WEs, TKs, im guessing maybe Beastmen aswell so you have the WE vs Beasts and Brets vs TKs thing going on, i would highly suspect that WE will see a release close to the time we start seeing FW stuff like that.
Thanks for all the help guys
i think i will be sticking to wood elves, whether or not they are good at the moment. the wait wont be that long i suppose, espesially when i put it to comparison to how long i will be playing the hobby (quite a while) my beasties will be fun too im not completely abondoning them. can anyone help me out with 1500 point list that is a good mix of both tree and elf? i do like the idea of a wild rider noble on greatstag.
once again thanks guys lightning
And good for you for accepting the challenge of playing what many players believe is a weaker army. With this army, you will learn tactics and gain skills that you might not have learned if you used a stronger army. You'll also learn which Wood Elf units will work for you and which ones won't.
I still have a lot of fun with my Wood Elves. They play a lot different. Glade riders and war dancers don't make it off the shelf anymore. Our core is still pretty solid, I play VC all the time and dryads are perfect for chewing up zombies. I did win two games back to back vs VC, it's pretty easy to shut down their magic with a level 4 spell weaver. But, I don't know how much longer thats going to last with the new VC book coming out.
Also, it's still a good time to find cheap WE models on e-bay with everyone jumping ship. I just picked up a metal treeman for about 1/3 the cost of a new one. K
Definitely don't hold your breath for Wood Elves to get a new book. I can't shake this feeling that GW is phasing them out. They're an under-represented army, and they don't play much of a role in the fluff at all. They did the same thing to Dogs of War and Chaos Dwarfs, letting Forgeworld pick up the Chaos Dwarfs.
But even if they're not due for an update any time soon, that doesn't mean that you can't still make good use of them. Just understand that a lot of the people who are whining, probably haven't updated their way of thought. One thing that I've noticed is that a lot of the successful Fantasy players that I know, have spent at least a year playing Wood Elves. They're not a super-power on the table, but the fact that they're so unforgiving means that you learn a lot about the theory behind a successful army. Think of those olympic sprinters who train by running with a parachute behind them - wood elves are that parachute, and once you go back to your Beastmen or another army, suddenly it feels like you can do anything.
The best wood elf lists that I've seen in 8th edition run on some pretty basic ideas:
1. Get rid of Dryads - your only core option is Glade Guard bowmen : This made a LOT of people very angry. Dryads used to be the only option, people have tons of them lying around, people see a S4 T4, 2A model with a 5+ ward and think it's awesome because they forget that they're Skirmishers. So don't go that route. Run several small units of Glade Guard, usually about 12-14 of them with their bows. Run enough to fill your minimum core and then stop. These guys are all throwaways, and make sure that your enemy keeps moving. You move forward, shoot the daylights out of him, fall back when he nears you, and draw him into a pocket of S4 death. And trees. There will be trees.
2. Treekin are brutes : their models are horrid, if you can convert them or find them cheap on eBay, go that route (I've seen people make them from dryad bits and Empire Flagellant bodies). The rules though are amazing. 6 of them in a single unit is normally enough to rock through whatever gets infront of them. Monstrous support means that the second rank gets their full attacks, their high toughness makes them hard to kill, they stomp, and they've got enough wounds to make anybody think twice about getting stuck in. They are Flammable, which can hurt a lot, but it's what you have to deal with - you're Wood Elves, what did you expect, them to hand it to you easy?
3. Treemen : your bigger version of Treekin, they can rock the damage as well, and make some pretty downright awesome anti-infantry. Again, cheap models here because these guys are metal (if you lose a game, a treeman in a sock is a great way to silence any trash-talkers). Their Roots attack makes sure that people don't want to stand around pointing fingers at them, but if the enemy charges you, they eat that same mass of roots on the way in. Again, you're flammable, but you should really just get used to it. Otherwise, these guys are beatsticks, and can even help you out with your magic defense if taken as characters rather than rare.
4. Singers - you only need one L4, and you should definitely give her a wardsave, but running Life or Beasts can save your butt. Life especially, since you can get back the wounds that you lose and make your army at least a little more forgiving.
So those are the basics. Anything else and you're diluting yourself, but I've seen other players running Warhawks or Wild Riders and doing quite well for themselves - it just takes a steep learning curve and lots of luck. The basic woodelf army in 8th however, is actually more akin to what GW envisioned for them when they were written way back in 6th - an army that moves like leaves in the wind, charging forward and falling back but always out of reach, backed up by devastating forest denizens. It's a cool army, I have fun every time mine hit the table. If I want to win a game, I break out the Warriors/Daemon "Great Host" or my High Elves. If I want to play the game, I reach for my WoodElves.
Sounds awfuly like theres a chance of a WE Bret combo army book in the making, as much as i hate to think about it. It would certainly Compliment Brets by bringing in those big forest spirits and elite units, but i cant help but think WE have the shitty end of the stick gaining cheap core units. When WFB was more in favour of cavalry then you could have gone along the lines of WE getting lots of hard hitting heavy cavalry but less so now.
It would also run the risk of some current units in both books being phased out to make room unless they have an epic book with all current + new units. Im hoping its not the case, but for 2 armies that need some new units i find it hard to imagen anything for either army which has an "ooo" factor.
I could see making the lists being a bit of an issue aswell, as i can see you needing at least 1 WE to take WE units, and 1 Bret character to take Bret units, and possibly even 1 Forest Spirit character for forest spirits. It all gets a bit complicated, but otherwise you would have problems explaining why you have a Lvl 4 WE mage leading and all Brett army, or a WE army with 2 trebuchet sitting at the back of the board.
Like i said for both armies it could solve alot of problems, but combining the two books seems to cause just as many mechanical issues.
GW are probably just waiting for the Hobbit films to come out, like with the new Dwarf Book. That way they can ride the band wagon of dwarf and elfy goodness. They may even wait untill the second film for WE when the battle of five armies takes place, involving an army of "WE". Generaly expect to see alot of idea pinching
This is the problem with GW they take so long to update stuff that certain things get left behind and then they wonder why it doesn't sell well. It could be because you ignored them for like 5+ years and 2 editions GW.Definitely don't hold your breath for Wood Elves to get a new book. I can't shake this feeling that GW is phasing them out. They're an under-represented army, and they don't play much of a role in the fluff at all. They did the same thing to Dogs of War and Chaos Dwarfs, letting Forgeworld pick up the Chaos Dwarfs
I still find dryads use full, you just have to adjust your thought of how to use them.
They better not combine brets with WEs that would just be a terrible book that would piss off most the players of both armies and then you would really have no one playing them. The problem is the WEs are a more modern tactic army and GW seems to kinda hate that so they just ignore them.
But if they wanted to they could revive interest in them like crazy if they would just update them. I mean they seem keen on adding new units to armies and big monsters. Well hard to really have a better source to come up with some cool units than a giant magic forest, who know what kinda of crazy beasts could live there. As for the other units it is not hard to fix some of them. All the elves mostly just need a point decrease, make all longbows for them S4 in half range, wardancers should just always have ASF and just make them a 5+ ward at all times, maybe a special rule where they negate ranks of a unit they are fighting. Make all forest spirit saves constant (I.E. like the daemons got). Those changes alone would give you over half the army book ready to go.
It is just sad, I by myself could rewrite and fully playtest out an entire new book for WEs in like 3-4 weeks. There is no reason why people who would be able to work on it for more hours in a day and who would have aid if needed cant do it, in over a year.
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