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It seems that in the new 8th ed army books, GW has reduced the power of some things, reduced the point cost of some models, reduced the magical item choices, and have done a few other tweaks to apparently try to align the different armies to somewhat equivalency. It doesn't seem like GW caused any of the armies to have become over powerful.
So, how have Wood Elf players fared against players that are using the updated army books?
Wood elves suffer from the general rule changes of 8th not from other armies being to powerful. Now we simply lack units that are suited for the new core rules or that are very over priced as their points were for abilities that are not the same as they were in previous editions.
- You must set fire to water or you will be extinguished.
Yes, I know that the Wood Elf army book is one of the two oldest books and suffers from this. I am not lamenting about this, or anything else in my post. Yet, once again I have not made my question clear the first go around.
I was simply trying to ask, has the new 8th edition army books had any impact on playing against those armies? Is it easier, harder, or about the same?
Maybe this question should not be asked exclusively of the Wood Elf players?
Any book is harder, old or new. But the newer books are especially hard since just about everything is getting these big monsters that we have trouble against. Aracknarock spiders, sphinx, thunderhorns (or whatever the big new ogre monster is). We just don't have any reliable way to deal with these monstrosities. So yes, things are harder, but thats just the way we like it, right.
I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
I would agree the new books are harder to face in general because they are built off of the new core rules, and since wood elves suffered the most in terms of power from the rules change when the new books step those armies further into the mess of 8th it makes them that much tougher for us to face.
- You must set fire to water or you will be extinguished.
I would agree with the above posters in saying that the 4 new books are even tougher to face than the others. The infantry is priced in accordance with 8th edition trends (which is to bring a lot of it), they have big gribblies galore (monstrous infantry, monstrous cavalry, AND actual monsters), and the fact that all of them are on the physically beefier side of the WHFB spectrum (particularly Ogres and O&G, but Undead elites are pretty beefy, too). There are other factors, but those things make fighting those guys rather hard.
And then there's the Mournfangs. Those guys give Wood Elves so much trouble, they deserve their own paragraph. If they come into contact with anything that's not a Treeman, just kiss it goodbye.
Yes, the new books are a little more difficult to play against, and that goes for everybody - not just WE. As Rothgar pointed out, the new books are more in line with the pricing changes, they're cavalry is cheaper for example, and their Core tends to be priced for the numbers game in 8th edition. Characters and Elites bring a lot of bang for their buck, and because 8th focuses a lot on larger, tougher monsters, a lot of the 7th ed armies aren't prepared to deal with the number of big-guys present on the table.
Again, as Rothgar pointed out, the armies which have been updated are something of a problem for Wood Elves, and always have been. Ogres bring a lot of multi-wound, T4+ biggies to the table, and that really hampers Wood Elf shooting. Likewise, the Undead can field such massive numbers of models that Wood Elf shooting (or even CC) can bog down in the face of so many wounds.
Woodelves aren't the most powerful book in the game right now, we've known that for a long time. They're not bad, but they're limited to just 1 build with little room to modify it for different situations. This means that some armies are always destined to rock Wood Elves, and unfortunately, some of those armies just got a re-up.
Thanks to all for your answers.
Within our group, there are only three players that have started armies with the new books (two O&G, one VC) and our games have not gotten to the higher points yet. I was just getting a bit curious as to whether there was a big difference. And now I know.
I have scanned the new books; they seem interesting but I did not get the impression there was that big of a boost. I guess I was wrong.
If I am understanding what you all are saying, all the armies are eventually going to be sort of the same, tar pits, decent core warriors, and big monsters. Ugh, sounds boring.
This causes me to even more strongly want to stay with Wood Elves. When our gaming group hits the higher point games, I'll play the one build a few times, but after that, win or lose, I'll play other lists. Wardancers, Waywatchers, Wild Riders, here we go. Ah, heck with the Wild Riders. Giddy-up Glade Riders! You Warhawk Riders, get off that shelf and shake off that thick coat of dust, you're coming along as well. And for even more chills and thrills, the army general will be a dragon riding lord (chills for me, thrills for my opponents).
Actually, those 4 armies play pretty differently from one another.
Ogres are mostly employing a "hit 'em fast, hit 'em hard, hit 'em 'till they stop moving" sort of style. They have some very good base movement, they're strong and beefy, and they have Impact Hits on most of their relevant units. As you can imagine, this leads them to favor a very aggressive style that is very charge-happy. Their model count is on the low side, but each guy has multiple Wounds.
O&G usually employ two major playstyles - they can go for the big bad elite army with huge units of Savage Orcs and Black Orcs, or you can play the hammer + anvil game with tarpit units of Night Gobbos and your pick of Squig Herds, Trolls, or any of the first two units I mentioned. The common theme here is that greenskins show up in numbers, which runs counter to what you saw above.
Tomb Kings are a bit of an all-rounder of an army, but the playstyle most people I talk to favor is a solid shooting core (Archers + Catapults + Casket of Souls) to force you to come to them, and then some hard-hitting units to mop up (Warsphinxes, Tomb Guard, Chariots).
Vampire Counts are mostly a "shamble forward and engage" army, and they're arguably the most character-dependent of the bunch (definitely the most magic-dependent, as their ability to raise troops is what keeps them in some matchups). That said, a Vampire Lord can be absolutely terrifying in combat - he'll rip ranks off Hordes by himself if properly equipped. Apart from that, they typically bring large amounts of anvils or tarpits (since their Core isn't all that good at fighting, for the most part), with the heavy hitting being supplied by Grave Guard/Vargheists/both.
As you can see, all very different armies on the table.