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At first glance, the dwarves seem like an easy enemy for the wood elves because of their lack of speed. This allows us to run circles around us and set up charges as we please. On further observation, I think dwarves can be nearly impossible for us to beat. Why? A few reasons. Firstly, yes dwarves are slow, but think about this, WE often rely on march blocking to win the day against melee armies, and the average army has a movement of 4, faster ones have 5, but since dwarves cannot be march blocked, they will maintain an unbreakable line and a constant movement of 6! This actually makes them faster than most armies against WE. Another thing is this, we have few things, even when attacking with multiple units, that can really hurt the dwarves enough to win combat. When it comes to a shoot off, the dwarves can sit back and out range us with war machines, forcing us to come close, and when we come close their gunline troops are as powerful shooting, and much more durable, so we have very few choices! Treeman and treekin, no, not with bolt throwers and cannons and heroes/lords with cheap flaming runes. Scouts/waywatchers, so hard to go warmachines hunting and they have no mages to hunt, and can't march block, nearly useless. Warhawks, gladeriders, so what they can hit and run, its statistically impossible for them to kill anything, and will most likely be slaughtered before they can run.
Another thing that pisses me off, is that even if you can find a way to make an army against dwarves, it is tailored just against them and won't be able to fight against other races or army types (skaven, empire, chaos, lizardmen, etc, sit back and shoot, fast attack, etc.)
I haven't yet started collecting wood elf models, as I don't know what to do. My best friend plays dwarves, but some of my other seperate group of friend play assorted armies (beastmen, skaven, lizardmen, etc.). I don't have tons of money, so I can't just buy tons of every unit and make the perfect lists against different armies. I don't know what to necessarily do as an anti dwarf army, like I said before, wouldn't fare as well against non dwarf armies. Im just trying to guess what stuff to buy.
Can anyone suggest anyway that WE can hope to fight against dwarves? They seem like the perfect anti-WE.
Last edited by Bruiser117; August 5th, 2005 at 06:28.
dryads will do the trick Vs dwarves, have them flank/rear charge and with enough numbers, they will autobreak them. as for siting back and shooting, most units will hit on 6s du to dryad screening.
They have as much of a hard time fighting us than we do against them.
Just take loads of skirmishers with bows and deploy 30 inches away. The war machines will be far less effective against skirmished troops as they are more spread out and your long bows have a range of 30, in a standard 5 turn game a dwarf army can only physically move 30. You can pepper the crap out of them with no risk of them getting into combat with you.
Helper monkey, bring me beer and donuts
Wardancers have dances that can give them killing blow and other useful abilities. They also skirmish, have 2 attacks each, and have the taslimanic war pain stuff. Give them a lord with the tree-teleport item and bring them about the dwarves'flanks if there are forests there. Then you have a nice flank charge and all those juicy warmachines there.
On another note, can someone tell me what killing blow is? I don't have enough money for the rule book, so basically what I know I get from the VC book, the WE book, and WD. From the looks of things, Killing Blow is something like rending in 40K except it auto-kills and only works on Ogre-sized models and smaller..
40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
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Well we can't give you the specific rules on things, but I can say it is similar to rending, and it doesn't affect ogre sized models.
WayWatchers are an excellent choice against dwarves (in my opinion). They have a nasty set up rule that allows them to get behind the dwarf line. After dispatching any warmachines, they can easily keep a relative pace with the dwarves to stay at short range so they can make use of their killing blow ability.
Dryads can't kill enough and will get annihilated due to combat resolution.
Waywatchers would be terrible against dwarves! How do you see them working. When 66% of their shots are hitting the warmachine itself, they would have a really tough time killing the crew. They also can't marchblock the dwarves, so its just a huge waste of points.
Originally Posted by Wolf_Pack
Dryads will at least wound on 4s instead of 5s, like the elves would; moreover, hitting at a higher strength than their elfen allies will make the dwarfs save at -1. Average elves, on the other hand, will wound on 5s. Dryads won't negate ranks, though they will still get a flank or rear bonus for CR.
As for autobreaking dwarfs, I played a dwarf army earlier today with my vampire counts. And you know, it's great when fear tests go your way, especially against a high leadership army like dwarfs. Those little buggers couldn't run fast enough, literally. My spirt hosts and skeletons chased 'em all down. Amidst the unholy glee of my undead victory, I must pause, sad to say, and admit the dice were rolling against the dwarfs. Statistically, they should have passed a few more break tests than they did based on that leadership 8 or 9. Because of that, I don't think dryads can rely on autobreaking dwarfs.
As for them screening against dwarf missle fire, I'd say it's a good idea. They are at a negative to hit and have a 5+ save against, barring cheap runes on the warmachines. Also, don't forget the spell that makes a unit partly ethereal until the next magic phase: They ignore terrain and mundane missile fire, if you're lucky enough to roll that spell.Phalanx, wardancers would probably shred a dwarfen war machine crew. Good idea. As for their tatoo save, it's a pretty slim chance.Originally Posted by Phalanx
Killing blow is great, and it's okay to tell you what it does. You'll have to buy the books to see who gets it and how and what it costs. Here's how it works. My grave guard has killing blow. He needs a 4 to hit that wood elf and he rolls it. Now he just needs a three or better to wound the puny elf and he rolls a 6! That's it, killing blow, the elf is dead with no armor save, no matter how many wounds he has left. If the elf is lucky and has a ward save he can take that. As for regeneration, you'd have to look it up, but I don't think you can regenerate a killing blow. As you state, KB only works on roughly man-size models.Originally Posted by MobiusPrime
Waywatchers aren't that hot against dwarfs in my experience, but that's only one game. Mine popped out the trees right in front of a dwarfen bolt thrower. I wounded a model once and it saved it easily. To their benefit, their skirmish and forest stalker rules made them almost impossible to hit, but they did nothing in return. And they can't marchblock. But if led by the properly tooled character, they could do much worse.
One thing we should ask is what are the advantages had by elves? Bruiser mentioned the first thing: our speed and maneuverability. The quicker we close to combat, the more shooting we avoid, and if we can coordinate that from the front and rear or side, so much the better for us.
Another thought, in one sense wild riders are better flankers than dryads because the riders negate ranks where the dryads do not.
Another advantage, we are more likely to hit with our bows than the dwarfs are with their crossbows. However, dwarfs are more likely to wound and much more likely to penetrate our flimsy armor.
I have taken out an O&G giant in two good rounds of shooting with my elves, so when the dice are rolling hot, things will go our way. (The giant toppled onto a goblin unit, smashing five of the little critters.)
Nobody's talked much about treekin and treemen. They can hit a flank with immense power and are much more likely to break the enemy with the rank-negating masses. They also cause fear (or terror) and have the forest spirit save.
And our flying-cavalry have double the usual unit size of flyers, so they can fly in, exchange blows, claim a flank or rear bonus, and flee the combat with hit and run.
So I think we can hold our own. I don't know if it's wise to sit there and exchange rounds of missile fire. The trick is to protect the units that are going in to do combat.
It's late, and I've rambled too much. Damned beer.
Last edited by DavidWC09; August 8th, 2005 at 18:51.
Eternal guard just don't seem like they will cut it against the dwarves though. I don't really see myself using them against dwarves.
ONE idea I see for waywatchers is that you can set them up right near / behind warmachine crews, and run in a slaughter them in combat. It should be pretty easy for 3-5 elves with two handweapons *8 attacks or so* should be able to kill 1 or 2 crewman. Thats pretty risky and even still a bolt thrower is so fricking ridiculously cheap its not even worth it. Two way watchers ARE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE CHEESE THROWER.
And another thing, I wanted to have a diverse and tactical WE army consisting of maybe some gladeguard, scouts and waywatchers, but they are all practically useless against dwarves.
Last edited by Bruiser117; August 6th, 2005 at 16:27.
Bruiser do you ever stop whining?
Its not necessarily a specific unit that will win against the dwarves, it will probably be our ability to maneuver and get in some flank attacks due to our high speed.
Also, did you ever think that maybe the dwarfs might have more than 1 bolt thrower. They might even have a cannon(gasp!) or a stone thrower(faint in shock). Killing those crews should wrack up some good points even before you add in the cost of runes.