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  1. #1
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    Wood Elves and Magic

    So I was thinking about my Wood Elves magic and how it stacks up against other elves. Both Dark Elves and High Elves get a +1 to their casting roles, but I couldn't find anywhere in the Wood Elf book that we get a bonus to our casting rolls.

    However, I did notice that we have good defensive magic. At 2000 points, you can take a Spellweaver, who can take an item that allows the user to reroll and dispel rolls. You can't get the item with a lesser Spellsinger, but at the lord level, it's a pretty nice item. Other items allow us to counter magic well, like the Divination Orb.

    I like Ranu's Heartstone for rerolling dice.

    Do you guys think it's better to have more warrior- and archer-like heroes, or magic users?

    How many magic users would you take at 1000, 1500, and 2000?

    Is the Branchwraith worth upgrading, even for just the dispel dice and maybe the spite that gives another dispel dice?

    What do all of you think about our magic? How to use it and so on?


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Teron's Avatar
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    First things first: WE singers/weavers suck for their cost. Limited Lores (not that bad), and no +1 to cast or Dispel. Unfair to say the least (but probably balanced out by some underpriced units, like Dryads and Eternal Guard)

    It's worth noting that, for +10 points, the Staff of Change absolutely annihilates the Wand of the Wych Elm. It allows the rerolling of specific dice, while the Wand only allows you to reroll the whole attempt. On top of that, the Staff also works for spellcasting. Still, the Wand is a good item and one of the Main Selling Points of the Spellweaver (even if it isn't as awesome as the Staff of Change or Book of Hoeth)

    The Divination Orb sucks especially in smaller games. In addition, it is worthless against Slann, for example, who can cast with three dice and just add the fourth with the special ability of the 2nd Generation.

    Deepwood Sphere is a good item, tho.

    I also like Branchwraiths. Warrior-Magi=A Good Thing

    As for the Lore, I like it. Not overly hitty, but offers numerous interesting tactical tricks for thr Elven player to play with. Now we just have to hope that Hidden Path doesn't get erfed into normal Etherealness and that a single Fire attack on a unit w/Ariel's Blessing doesn't cancel the spell's effects on the unit for the rest of the game like it happens with Trollguts...


    And, lastly, my proposed fix for WE casters:

    Spellsinger:
    Lores of Loren, Beasts, Life
    +1 to Cast Loren spells
    Level upgrade cost increased to 40pts (like Dark Elves)

    Spellweaver:
    Lores of Loren, Beasts, Life, Shadows
    +1 to Cast Loren spells
    Level upgrade cost increased to 40pts (like Dark Elves)

    Branchwraith
    Lore of Loren
    +1 to Cast

    This would have the effect of making other magic than Loren an option, but would keep Loren the primary Lore due to +1 to Cast (and in addition would make WE casters worth their cost)
    Use Light, Beasts, Metal instead of Heavens
    NecroLords: Use at least one Death Mage
    Brets: Use Peasants&Damsels
    Skaven: Don't use Skryre SAD

  4. #3
    Son of LO Wolf_Pack's Avatar
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    the Branch wraith's ability to become a Lv1 caster is the equaliser to the missing +1 IMO.

    Also mages have acces to spites wich can boost some abilities, and a terror causing mage can sure do alot for you when he becomes etereal!
    Best Regards,
    Wolf_Pack

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teron
    First things first: WE singers/weavers suck for their cost. Limited Lores (not that bad), and no +1 to cast or Dispel. Unfair to say the least (but probably balanced out by some underpriced units, like Dryads and Eternal Guard)
    youve just annoyed me.

    Dryads are standard form for a close combat orientated SKIRMISHER unit.

    they have next to nil CR... wait, they have NIL static CR

    so on average agaisnt a ranked up unit you need 6 kills KILS to win. and thats only with a -1 for your foe.

    they are not underpriced, they need support, just like the maority of the army.

    ***rant over***

    in other news, the magic is good. i personally like the lore of athel loren, neither having +1 cast/dispel makes no odds, you can buy a staff of sorcery if you want.

    however, 2 spellcasters with the treesinging items can give your opponent a major headache... how many lores do you know that allow you to reshape the battlefield, to create bottlenecks, create/destroy lines of fire etc?

    what is good fun is warpinga forest infront of an enemy unit that was about to charge and maul a pricy unit of yours, blocking them, you then charge through same wood unimpeded.

    Lord Foamy

  6. #5
    Senior Member Teron's Avatar
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    No Lore, but I sure know the Coatl's Master of the Sacred Places can give opponents a major headache (and will probably absorb scrolls/dice like no tomorrow. D6 Terrain pieces D6 or D6+1 inches? 6+ to cast? Yeah, talk aboyt insanity)
    Use Light, Beasts, Metal instead of Heavens
    NecroLords: Use at least one Death Mage
    Brets: Use Peasants&Damsels
    Skaven: Don't use Skryre SAD

  7. #6
    Boiiing! Knape97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teron
    And, lastly, my proposed fix for WE casters:
    Wow Teron, you amaze me.

    The wood elf army book has been avaliabe for less than a month and yet you have had time to play them against every single army, and at every single point level. You must really have a lot of spare time.

    Seriously. how can you even mention fixes when the books only just come out and I very much doubt that you have had time to put it into ply in different scenarios.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teron
    ..and no +1 to cast or Dispel. Unfair to say the least
    Yeah, its also unfair that we don't get cannons like Empire or Dwarfs, and where are our sacred spawnings!!! Wood Elves are a DIFFERENT army to Dark / High elves and as such, have different rules. Does that make the different rules unfare? Nope, just different.

  8. #7
    Son of LO Wolf_Pack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knape97
    Wow Teron, you amaze me.

    The wood elf army book has been avaliabe for less than a month and yet you have had time to play them against every single army, and at every single point level. You must really have a lot of spare time.

    Seriously. how can you even mention fixes when the books only just come out and I very much doubt that you have had time to put it into ply in different scenarios.

    Yeah, its also unfair that we don't get cannons like Empire or Dwarfs, and where are our sacred spawnings!!! Wood Elves are a DIFFERENT army to Dark / High elves and as such, have different rules. Does that make the different rules unfare? Nope, just different.
    Very good point there Knape, if they had the possibility to go magic heavy in the same way as dark/high elves, this wouldn't be a new army, just an extention of the already existing ones.

    As GW gave them a more savage/darker look, they also wantes the players to explore they more interesting facets of the army, such as the forest spirits, and guerrilla warfare, wich is much more challenging than spellblasting away the enemy.

    Wood elves also have access to units and magical items other elf armies lack, and it makes up for a deficient magic phase.
    Best Regards,
    Wolf_Pack

  9. #8
    LO Zealot MobiusPrime's Avatar
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    Thank you Lord Foamy and Knape97.

    You covered all the points I was going to rant about.

    Fixing the WE book? Geeze, it's not even a month old, give it a chance.

    And no +1 to magic. Well boo hoo. Like Lord Foamy said, I guess it's just not fair to High and Dark Elves that they can't move terrain around either, huh?

    Huff!

  10. #9
    /botnobot/ DavidWC09's Avatar
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    1283 (x8)

    What about my original questions?

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    ill give you a lowdawn.

    "So I was thinking about my Wood Elves magic and how it stacks up against other elves. Both Dark Elves and High Elves get a +1 to their casting roles, but I couldn't find anywhere in the Wood Elf book that we get a bonus to our casting rolls."


    ***dark elves cet +1 to cast but i believe you need to purchase a darkstar cloak for that, if its an inherent ability, look at the relative casting values. to be fair the ability to move forests for a mere 4+ is a good one. the high elf lore has good abilities to denigrate your enemy - vauls unmaking being one of them... the dark elves have a lore which is great for offensive purposes. we have a self directing augmentative lore.
    that branchwraith can make the entire unit of dryads essentially ethereal, can warp a forest forwards to suit itself etcetera.***


    However, I did notice that we have good defensive magic. At 2000 points, you can take a Spellweaver, who can take an item that allows the user to reroll and dispel rolls. You can't get the item with a lesser Spellsinger, but at the lord level, it's a pretty nice item. Other items allow us to counter magic well, like the Divination Orb.

    *** yes we do have good anti magical abilities the divination orb is a great one in particular to stop the bigger spells your opponent has from going off when you have a smaller dispel pool.. the dispel rolls reroll item is also tre's gut methinks***

    I like Ranu's Heartstone for rerolling dice.

    ***standard reroll item one use only, would rather invest the points in the luminescent spite for the extra dispel dice***

    Do you guys think it's better to have more warrior- and archer-like heroes, or magic users?

    ***thats up to you and your playing style, im lucky, at home i have plenty of bits of wooded scenery, and at my gaming club we do like to use a fair bit of terrain to make bottlenecks etc. my 2k list is headed by a spellweaver a singer and an upgraded wraith (with an alter noble running around supporting the gladeriders. however the combat orientated characters are also fun, i'd love to take a treeman ancient anda noble for a bit of punch***

    How many magic users would you take at 1000, 1500, and 2000?

    ***1000 - maximum 1, i only ever take 1 character in games of 1k or less anyway to maximise on troops... would rather have a waywatcher noble 1500 add a spellsinger and a branchwraith to my noble.

    2000 this is where i start to like magic - spellweaver -noble - singer -wraith
    3000+ spellweaver, highborn, 2 singers a wraith

    but these are MY preferences***

    Is the Branchwraith worth upgrading, even for just the dispel dice and maybe the spite that gives another dispel dice?

    *** depends on how many points you want to invest, i personally would, and take the reesinging spell as standard, although taking the annoyance of netlings to help should the raith get hunted as well as the lumi's (wraiths can have more than one spite...)***

    What do all of you think about our magic? How to use it and so on?

    ***i like it, NO OTHER LORE allows you to reshape the battlefield according to your whims.
    NO OTHER LORE allows you to make units essentially ethereal
    etc.
    its good, its not offensive or anything, although it is good fun giving the lore of life to the weaver for some variation
    its a good list

    and magic items coupled with the lore of athel, can and will give your opponent a major headache.***

    Lord Foameh

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