Welcome to Librarium Online!
friday i'll be playin ogre kingdoms
can some one give me some advice what tactics i should use?
i have 2wardancer noble both accompagnied by 9 wardancers
than a brainchwraith with 3 units of 9 drayds
a spellsinger on a unicorn
2x 5 wild riders
2x 6 waywatchers
plzz help me
the white knights tournament winner 2004: bretonian
the white knights tournament winner 2005: Chaos
Fanatic maastricht 2004: 2nd place chaos
Fanatic zwolle 2004: 3th place Wood elves
Fanatic maastricht 2005: 1st place Wood elves
Fanatic zwolle 2005: 1st place Wood Elves
Well, I think some of the answer is obvious. Don't get charged.
Second, the waywatchers' big ticket is killing blow, which, in this case, is pointless as it doesn't work against ogres. 10 glade guard would do the trick, and get str 4 at short range, a big help against ogres' toughness.
Also a unit like glade guard can give the ogre player a target, hopefully baiting him and making him forget your other units, or pay less attention to them. If the OK player is saavy at all, he won't go for this, but you never know. Even so, you need archers, and waywatchers are too much.
I'd drop the spellsinger to a foot model and hide her in the trees.
Otherwise, coordinate your charges with the wardancers, dryads, and wild riders. If you can put the pincers on him, you can win.
Dryads and wardancers are good choices since they have high str. So are the wild riders, especially on the charge. And being immune to psych will help too.
I think you're going to have a tough fight on your hands. Ogres (in my opinion) are one of the toughest armies for us to face. They move quick, they're tough and they kick butt in hand to hand. Not to mention some of their crazy stuff like Gorgers and Butchers.
One thing that can be an Ogre Kingdom's armies downfall is psychology. Most units have pretty low Ld that you can exploit. It's hard to cause enough casualties in one round of shooting to force a check, but Wild Riders into a flank can be pretty devastating.
It'll be hard to get a charge with your Wardancers, as the Ogres move quicker than you. Only careful use of terrain is going to trick him into giving you a charge.
Personally, I don't like your list. I assume you're playing 2000pts, and you have 324 points spent on Core units. That's very unsportsman like, in my opinion.
yep but at least its not a glade guard heavy army where all the other units are simply there to slow the enemy down. that army should make for a few interesting battles
i didnt do it it was him 'onest boss
Originally Posted by MobiusPrime
Going slightly off topic (but not really, because my explanation will explain a lot of the pitfalls you can use against the ogres), but I think Ogres are actually one of the easier armies to face as Wood Elves.
The main Wood Elf strengths are great skirmishers, hard hitting archery, and good movement. Our weaknesses are our lack of ranked up units.
Ogres strengths are speed, toughness, and shear killing power. Their weakness is a lack of ranked up units, armor, and low WS.
Right off the bat, our biggest problem is taken away. Our opponent will never have "the magic 5", excluding Knoblars, which really don't count. Now our skirmishers don't have to worry about having +5 combat resolution going up against them when they charge into a unit. Toughness 4 may seem like a lot, but keep in mind both Dryads and Wardancers are Str 4 on the charge, so they are going to be hitting on 3s, wounding on 4s with quite a large amount of attacks.
Another Ogre strength are those armor piercing ogre clubs. Joke is on the though, as we wood elves don't really believe in armor anyhow.
While T4 is a lot harder to wound with our arrows, they also have a lot less armor then most opponents, so our wounds will be saved less frequently as well. Also, with ANY ogre unit that is 4 man or smaller, killing ONE model will cause a panic check. Ogres may be big and scary, but their leadership is just a 7, meaning they will fail their checks one third of the time if they aren't near their general, which at best gives them a 9. Ogres will die from shooting, especially if you concentrate fire, and you can force a lot of panic checks.
Ogres may be fast, but they can still be march blocked fairly easily, and since they have a low amount of power dice, and very little shooting, our pain-in-the-rear march blockers are going to have it fairly easy. Also, fast or not, ogres become very unwieldy real fast. Wheeling with 3 Ogres is like wheeling with a 6 wide infantry block, and wheeling with 4 Ogres is equivalent to 8 wide. Those wheels have to cover a lot of distance to turn anywhere. Because of their lack ov manueverability, you can easily move your skirmishers and fast cav around them if you threaten them to face towards your threats.
Other things to keep in mind. Since Ogres almost never have ranks (some players don't even believe in taking Ogre units that big, and believe in the Multiple-Small-Units theory), any charge into a flank means you only have to kill One ogre to prevent any attacks back. Now, doing the math here, assuming the unit still outnumbers you somehow, and has a banner, if you have US5 for a flank attack, that means if you kill one Ogre, you'll have +1 for the flank, and +3 for wounds (+4 total), while your opponent will have 2 (banner, and outnumber). As I said earlier, they have low leadership, and beating them by 2 means they have to take a break check on somewhere between a 5 and 7, which isn't a very comforting check to take. The best way to accomplish this is charging Wardancers into the flank. Doing the dance of +1 attack, you'll get 4 into base-to-base (2 directly touching, 2 on the corners since an Ogre is 40mm, and you are 20mm), which without a champion is 12 Str 4 attacks, hitting on 3s.
Wow, that's a long post... ok, here's the cliffnotes version:
-Use your arrows to force panic checks. 4 or less ogres means 1 dead gives a panic check.
-Fast or not, they still are march-blockable, and unwieldy units. Outmanuever them, and make use of your scouts to march block.
-Tough or not, make use of our many Str4 units.
-A good flank will often win you combat.
Heheh. I never really looked at it that way.
The Ogre Kingdom player at my club plays with a large block of Bulls (9 - one is a champion) and attached a Bruiser and BSB and a Butcher. This little move guarantees that if hit in the front, even if he takes casualties, he always gets all his attacks, as everyone is a character or champion. If you hit him in the flank, you have to do 9 or 10 wounds to get no attacks back on you. The only time I've ever wiped this unit out was with an Ushabti charge to the flank after they'd been whiddled down by tons of magic missiles.
just wallop it from all sides with a reasonable sized unit. EG/treekin in the front wardancers/dryads in the sides and warhawks in the rear you will beat him before any dice have been rolled and you will kill lots of ogres if you can get enough wardancers into contact
i didnt do it it was him 'onest boss
That player is really doing you a favor. He is giving you HALF of his army tied up into one of the most unwieldly unit in the game. I'm guessing he runs them 4 wide, maybe 5, which is quite unwieldy. Without ANY equipment, and just command, those characters and the unit come in to 850 points, so they are going to easily be a unit worth over 1000 points.Originally Posted by MobiusPrime
You have two choices with a player who puts all his eggs into one basket, which is what this player is doing for you. You can either:
A.) Find a way to take out the unit. One failed break check, and one successful pursue earns you 1000VPs for the unit, 100VPs for the Battle Standard, 100VPs for the General, 100VPs for a captured standard, so 1300 VPs. I've played a lot of games, and I don't think I've lost many at all where I earned 1300 VPs.
B.) Avoid the unit completely. Again, Ogres are unwieldy, and you have a bunch of skirmishing and fast cav running around the table. While he's being march blocked and trying to make it into charge range or into facing you, you just scoot around since your fast cav can go faster then him, and your skirmishers won't be marched blocked. Don't be afraid to flee from a monster unit like that. With his hardest hitting unit out of the game, it leaves your 2000-2250 army to fight his remaining 1000-1250 points. It takes some work, but those are some good odds.
Yeah, he only plays with the big unit (which is 4 wide, by the way) in 2000 pts. Besides that, he usually has another Butcher, some Yheteez, some Leadbelchers and a pack of Gnoblars running around.
In 1000 pt games, which is all I play right now with my Wood Elves, the unit is the same, minus one rank of Ogres (so it's just all the characters, and then 4 normal guys). I've played against this twice, both times, I simply march block the unit and whiddle it down with missile fire and hope for a break test. It hasn't happened yet, but usually he only reaches my battleline with just his Bruiser and Butcher, and that's usually by turn 5. So they eat a 126 pt Glade Guard unit, overrun off the board and on turn 6, come back on and can't do anything.
Since I ashoo using Wardancers, when I get to the 2000pt level, this unit might prove difficult. Ah, well. By then I'll have Treemen, and s'more Dryads to dish out the pain.
why no wardancers?
i didnt do it it was him 'onest boss